Spiegel Grove??

[DandyDon]

He seems to be a "Vacation Diver" - a classification now available on Dive Info here on SB - "Ive been diving for 6 years and have logged about 25 dives but I mostly did in the Carribean."

Altho he may have developed additional interests lately, it doesn't seem to be all that important to him. Doubt that he'd miss it much.

 

[pakman]

If I may take this thread on a slight detour and focus on one of the things brought up in this accident. On the point about using nicorette gum or patches, have others had any bad experience using them right before diving or received any opinions on its use while diving from a professional? As someone who is currently trying to kick smoking and using nicorette gum, I'd be curious about this. Not that I promote nicotine use (smoking or elsewise), I haven't had issues with heart racing or other issues when I used to puff away during surface intervals... But then again chewing 2g or 4g nicorette gum would be the equivalent nicotine as 4-8 light cigarettes in one shot!

edit: guess I'd better play it safe and just avoid the gum while diving...

 

[Squalus]

For all you wanna be doctors, you have to understand that at least 75% of divers are on a medication or multiples and then how many divers smoke or drink

Now, I would beg to differ with you on this. I know alot of divers that smoke it has no effect on thier diving. For the drinking part, a smart diver would wait his/her SI till they consumed alcohol. Hmmm I wonder where you got the 75% from though, I have never answered/heard of such a questionaire being circulated. I have always called DAN if I had a question about a medication, it's a free call and it educated me further on meds. If in doubt call the professionals at DAN they are very user friendly.

Some examples of panic are caused by faulty equipment, nitrox mix, visibility, coldness, depth, etc

Not being comfortable with the equipment your using, not having faith in your blend, not being able to cope with limited vis, unable to handle (cold)water temp, and not being used to going deep (the limited experience or lack of) is what causes panic episodes. Overall experience and training is what is needed prior to going to advanced classes. It is the individuals responsibility to be ready to go on to advanced areas in diving.

 

[Squalus]

He seems to be a "Vacation Diver" - a classification now available on Dive Info here on SB - "Ive been diving for 6 years and have logged about 25 dives but I mostly did in the Carribean."

Altho he may have developed additional interests lately, it doesn't seem to be all that important to him. Doubt that he'd miss it much.

Ummm no Don that would be a WWW

That is why alot of us tend to keep up to date in quarries and are willing to take trips all over to dive with our fellow SB'ers.

 

[casemanager]

I'm pretty sure I'd stress about a panic attack that resulted in a (5 hour?) chamber ride, both as the panicer and as the buddy of one. Also, you would give that advice against the medical advice he got at the chamber? I don't know the qualifications of the chamber tech. but it sounds like at the very minimum a second opinion is in order.

This has me curious and I will ask at the shop when I go in tomorrow as well, but as a dive professional, is the above advice sound?
Situation: One of your students has a panic attack resulting in a chamber ride and that student is told while under medical care that they should not dive again because of panic. Knowing this, do you tell the student to do it if they like it? Do you require a medical waiver or clearance to let them back in class? Do you not STRONGLY recommend getting a lot more current experience on shallow dives before attempting to dive deep again?

As a diver, your potential buddy for a deep dive only tells you he "might get narced" instead of, "I have a history of panic that resulted in me inflating my BC, rocketing to the surface and ending up in a chamber". How do you react if you learn the truth? Personally, I'd be majorly P.O.'d.

Yes, it was only one experience but it is one experience that potentially risked his life and others around him. It wasn't a chamber ride due to an undeserved hit and I haven't seen him take any responsibility for it. These types of threads are usually full of the guy asking why HE reacted that way. How HE can avoid it in the future. How HE will never let it happen again. This one is chock full of 'someone else let it happen'. 'Someone else wasn't watching'. 'Someone else is responsible'. 'Stop blaming me and my actions'

Joe

Again I take full responsibility for going up to fast. I dont know if you have read the whole thread or just popped in. I got in a difficult situation and I had to rely on my own safety, therefore I did what is natural, I bolted up. It was my fault but if I hadnt bolted, maybe I wouldnt be here writing this. In fact my instructor told me I did the right thing by surfacing, had i not inflated my bc and just kicked to the surface, that would of been better but I didnt really want to wait as i felt like the end was near.

As far as a history of panic, i dont have that but when a person is in the most dangerous situation, like mine, I admit, I paniced. People can only learn from mistakes and I will learn which should make me a better diver.

I dont understand these people who just accept whatever happens to their body physiology as normal and they just relax and never panic. Thats not me. I made a mistake, one that should make me a better and more responsible diver if I decide to get back into the water.

 

[casemanager]

i wouldnt worry about nicotine gum, think of all the divers who dip tobacco even while diving. I think there are a lot of want-to-be doctors on this thread and think that nicotine gum causes rapid heart beat. I think we should ban smokers from diving.

 

[casemanager]

believe it or not, i actually had loggeed more dives then most of the people in my class, according to NAUI, you only have to have 25 dives to be a Master Diver. Whats up with that? I dont agree with that.

The reason why I started to get more certs is that I want to get more experience and dont want to dive just on vacation.

 

[waynne fowler]

I know alot of divers that smoke it has no effect on thier diving.

Your not really saying that it has 'NO' effect are them? Smoking may not appear to effect their diving outwardly, but from a physiological standpoint smoking and diving is quite dangerous. I say this as I light up a smoke of course. I also understand the elevated risk's both in and out of the water.


BTW Not disagreeing with you on any other point.

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

If there is one key thing in this experience it is that you now know what panic feels like underwater: that tunnelling of vision, the difficulty in getting a decent breath, etc. I rate that moment – the first feeling of panic or near panic in the water, as a key moment of learning in all divers: you have to experience it in order to learn how to overcome your ‘fight or flight’ reflex in difficult situations. You have also learnt that it is usually several smaller factors snowballing into one bigger problem that lead to that point. Most divers on this thread will have experienced a similar moment, and become better divers for it.

Now look back at your experience and I wish to ask you a key question: would you react differently if presented with that experience again? You will now hopefully have learnt that when there is a problem that you should stop, take a deep breath, and think: is your air on? Yep. Is your buddy close? Yep. Ok - what exactly is the problems? How do I fix it?

I dont understand these people who just accept whatever happens to their body physiology as normal and they just relax and never panic. Thats not me.

Thats exactly the sort of person you have to become to continue as a diver. Relaxing and dealing with problems by yourself underwater is something people learn through exactly the experiences you have encountered.

I got in a difficult situation and I had to rely on my own safety, therefore I did what is natural, I bolted up.

In all difficult situations encountered in diving you have to rely on yourself. Maybe bolting up felt natural thing to do then, but I truly hope you have overcome this urge and no longer consider it the natural thing to do now: you have to rely on yourself on every dive you do.

Cheers,
Rohan.

 

[waynne fowler]

believe it or not, i actually had loggeed more dives then most of the people in my class, according to NAUI, you only have to have 25 dives to be a Master Diver. Whats up with that? I dont agree with that.

The reason why I started to get more certs is that I want to get more experience and dont want to dive just on vacation.

Thanks CM for your responses:05:
I admire your sticking with it here in this thread as you can help us all to learn a little something maybe.

you wrote:
I got in a difficult situation and I had to rely on my own safety, therefore I did what is natural, I bolted up. It was my fault but if I hadnt bolted, maybe I wouldnt be here writing this. In fact my instructor told me I did the right thing by surfacing, had i not inflated my bc and just kicked to the surface, that would of been better but I didnt really want to wait as i felt like the end was near.

You are absolutely right that what you did was natural. But as you probably have figured out sometimes doing that which is natural is in fact the wrong thing to do at that moment.

I wonder if you could tell us if this feeling of panic came on you in a sudden overwhelming rush or if there was some kind of buildup. A general feeling of malease or anxiety that built up to the panic? Did this feeling of panic escalate as you ascended or did it subside a bit on the way up?

Perhaps you could talk about the predive, how'd you feel about the dive before you got in the water, during assembly and at the briefings?

And yes you got proper counsel in a situation like that youd first try to get your buddies attention, which you did... good job BTW. And then in a nice slow fashion do an ascent.

Waynne Fowler