Spiegel Grove??

[2Tours N Iraq`]

Ok, I'll be the thread diplomat again. This thread is NOT about whether or not Casemanager should ever dive again. That is up to him, no one else. Granted, he should follow the advice of a Dive Physician, but again that is just advice.

What this thread IS about is figuring out the factors and events leading up to the dive, what happened underwater, and finding something to help Casemanager learn from this experience, and possibly the rest of us as well. As Wayne said, it takes a great deal of courage to start a thread like this and even more to stick around.

IMHO, we will never know the complete drug interaction taking place within Casemanager's body. As Polly mentioned earlier, just because a drug is safe for the masses doesn't mean it is necessarily safe for a particular individual (hence warning labels on medications). Add to that pressure and other factors, there are just WAY too many variables to attempt to figure it all out. We can speculate all we want but it probably won't lead anywhere except for him to consult a dive physician prior to diving.

I encourage all of you to put your feelings and emotions about Casemanager aside and look at the problem as we know it. If you want to badmouth another diver, do it elsewhere, this is not the thread for it.

I end this post with this challenge: It's easy to kick someone when they are down, it takes a real man/woman to help them back up. Which one are you?

 

[LJinFLA]

since LJ is my buddy

I was not your buddy on the dive if that is what you meant. If you mean trying tobe a buddy here, I honestly am trying to be. But aparently there is not much more one can do to make this productive. This is going to go where it goes I guess.

Oh, Casemanager I and about three other people thought we hard tank banging. Yet my buddy right next to me did not. It might have been from someone else, I might have been the old wreck, It might been narcosis. I think earlier I mentioned that there was some debate about it. In any event, it did make me turn and look at you two rignt about the time this was happening, per discussions with your buddy. At least at the time we all thought it was you and your buddy.

LJ

 

[String]

You did mean 'possible' right.

Whoops. Correct. Thats what i get for trying to write a post at 4am

 

[Sideband]

For all you wanna be doctors, you have to understand that at least 75% of divers are on a medication or multiples and then how many divers smoke or drink

Where did you get that number from?

Its real easy for all of you to blame my panic as medically related and not something else.

Of course it is. The 2 drugs you said you were on have LISTED side effects that match what you experienced. Personally, I'd be PRAYING that it was the drugs. I could avoid them on further dives. If the problem was just me, well...It was a fun hobby while it lasted.

Some examples of panic are caused by faulty equipment, nitrox mix, visibility, coldness, depth, etc

Did you find any faulty equipment? You tested your mix at the shop and before the dive didn't you?

But most of you divers are experts and know how to point the finger

If you read the profiles or know some of the people here, yeah. They come pretty close to experts.

 

[TheRedHead]

since LJ is my buddy

Guess what, I have never had a history of panic attacks. I dont know where that came from, then theres another person who said i was taking 3 psychotropics, where did they make that one up.

This is kind of like a political election, lots of swinging and backstabbing.

This board makes me never want to put on a tank again because if you all represent the diving community, Id rather be playing golf

Casemanager, I apologize. I reread the post from LJ and it states:

Hey casemanager,

What about the fact that you have a history of panic? Why not tell them about the other prescription medications (yes multiple!) you were taking for this?

.

This post was way back there. Prescription medications for panic made me assume that you were taking psychotropic drugs because I can't think of anything else you could take for panic. Perhaps you could clear this up if you want a more accurate analysis of what went wrong.

I do understand you had a clearance from your doctor to dive, but if he is not a diving doctor, it is possible he might not understand the effects of depth and how small issues can mushroom into panic.

Did you get a chance to do your skills on the dive before you panicked and bolted to the surface?

I don't think anyone is trying to point the finger. This forum, to my understanding, is the place to discuss the events which led to an accident.

 

[TheScubaGirl]

I havn't read through the entire thread yet, but would like to give you some quick advice.

Don't stress about having had one panic experience. If you really love diving, then continue doing it. Just always have your buddy at arms length, let your buddy know before a deep dive that you might get narced and discuss signals in case you want to go up a few meters when you do get narced. Some people feel silly and wonderful when narced, others feel fear, but it goes away if you ascend a meter or so.
Meds can also affect it, so just be aware that it could happen and know what to do when it does.

I hope you get back into the water soon and that this will just be valuable experience to become a safer diver.

 

[Tom725]

Wasn't the Padi name changed from Advnced to Adventures?

Doing the first three dives of the AOW was called an Adventure Diver. That program has been discontinued.

 

[Tom725]

Wasn't the Padi name changed from Advnced to Adventures?

Doing the first three dives of the AOW was called an Adventure Diver. That program has been discontinued.

 

[Scuba]

This board makes me never want to put on a tank again because if you all represent the diving community, Id rather be playing golf

Undestandable.

Keep in mind that there is more than one school of thought in the dive community. Opinions, comments and advice are often presented in a blunt contentious way, not necessarily in an amicable manner. But also remember that the minimum acceptable outcome in diving is par for the course - every dive. Anything less should be quickly remedied regardless of personal feelings or beleifs, given a chance. Don't overlook so much of the good advice given here, take some time to calm your emotions and take another look at it. By the way, you're not the only one who has a taken beating in this thread.

Something that has probably been mentioned, I'm not reading this whole thread again, so just in case, it appears obvious that you felt dissatisfied with this training course, I would urge you to file a complaint with the training agency. My reasons being to inform the agency so they can investigate and hopefully determine if there was any fault on the part of the instructor or others. This is not intended as a punitive measure, but a remedial one to prevent further incidents if the case warrants. It also informs the agency an accident has occured in this type of class, AOW. Otherwise, I don't know if anyone is required to report it or if they will.

The foremost issue here is to prevent further occurences by correcting whatever is necessary on the part of all involved. Doing your part will not only help yourself, but possibly others in this contentious, but mostly well intentioned, dive community.

PS. Sometimes people want a simple answer to explain and fix a problem. The reasons for the incident you describe are complex and most likely not attributable to one simple cause. There's a variety of issues at play, which have been discussed, and should all be addressed.

 

[Sideband]

Don't stress about having had one panic experience. If you really love diving, then continue doing it.

I'm pretty sure I'd stress about a panic attack that resulted in a (5 hour?) chamber ride, both as the panicer and as the buddy of one. Also, you would give that advice against the medical advice he got at the chamber? I don't know the qualifications of the chamber tech. but it sounds like at the very minimum a second opinion is in order.

This has me curious and I will ask at the shop when I go in tomorrow as well, but as a dive professional, is the above advice sound?
Situation: One of your students has a panic attack resulting in a chamber ride and that student is told while under medical care that they should not dive again because of panic. Knowing this, do you tell the student to do it if they like it? Do you require a medical waiver or clearance to let them back in class? Do you not STRONGLY recommend getting a lot more current experience on shallow dives before attempting to dive deep again?

As a diver, your potential buddy for a deep dive only tells you he "might get narced" instead of, "I have a history of panic that resulted in me inflating my BC, rocketing to the surface and ending up in a chamber". How do you react if you learn the truth? Personally, I'd be majorly P.O.'d.

Yes, it was only one experience but it is one experience that potentially risked his life and others around him. It wasn't a chamber ride due to an undeserved hit and I haven't seen him take any responsibility for it. These types of threads are usually full of the guy asking why HE reacted that way. How HE can avoid it in the future. How HE will never let it happen again. This one is chock full of 'someone else let it happen'. 'Someone else wasn't watching'. 'Someone else is responsible'. 'Stop blaming me and my actions'

Joe