So many regulators, only one mouth...

[beanojones]

Just to clarify, you won't be repairing corroded gear, you will be throwing it out. Once the body of a first stage flow through piston, or the air barrel of a second stage is dechromed and/or worn, the cost of replacing the parts is more expensive than buying a new one.

I worked at a S/P shop, got my gear and parts at cost or less, and was the shop tech so rebuild labor cost was zero, and it was still not worth it to repair my S/P gear, and it was worthless to sell as is. That's when I stopped using Scubapro, which (at that point) was tied to flow through piston, and chromed brass air barrels design. Now Scubapro offers environmentally sealed diaphragm first stages, but they had not committed fully to Titanium second stages last I checked.

ScubaPro have a conservative customer base, and they have to keep selling the gear that that conservative base expects. Admitting that diaphragm first stages are equal performers to flow through pistons was hard enough for the company (and it is something that the Atomic guys still cannot bring themselves to admit). The Atomic guys left ScubaPro when ScubaPro would not go ahead with a full Titanium reg (ScubaPro instead came out with an coated Aluminum one which set records for exploding into piles of corrosion). If ScubaPro finally admitted that the Atomic guys were right all along and admitted second stage barrels and levers should be made of titanium, hell might freeze over.

After not even being able to repair my S/P gear, I changed exclusively to Diaphragm first stages for the main regs. I still like the cheapo flow-by piston for some stuff, but I do not expect it to last. When it dechromes I might be able to replace parts but more likely its time to toss it.

 

[50Fathom]

I agree with SP being well-nigh obsessed with piston first stages, and not giving diaphragms their due, along with restricting O2 kits to only the piston designs. It's a major sticking point with me, but I can get them cheap and am a tech, so for now...

 

[CPH]

Is HOG not just a rebadged Apeks?

 

[beanojones]

Apeks originally made all their own gear in England, and they held patents on the dry environmental seal so only they had that available for a long time.

When Aqualung bought Apeks (thus taking the Apeks from Zeagle) then a lot of companies went ahead and 'parallel/reverse' engineered the dry environmental design. Zeagle had to since they could no longer rebadged Apeks regs as Zeagles. Others, like Oceanic, because Aqualung incorporated the patented dry environmental seal into Aqualung's existing reg line, and a crack to using the dry environmental design without paying royalties had been opened.

Once the dust settled and the reverse/parallel engineered dry environmental seal system became free from patent protection, then the OEM manufacturers copied the design and started making TX50 first stage knockoffs.

It's that knockoff version, which designed to look as much like a Apeks TX50 first stage as it can without being sued, that makes everyone think it is an Apeks. It's not, but most of the ideas and styling are patterned on it. DiveRite, Hog, LeisurePro, etc etc all use the same OEM manufacturer.

At this point, it would not be a surprise to find out that Aqualung themselves would buy from that same OEM manufacturer. They do not though. Apeks was still made in England, last I talked to the AquaLung rep.

Plastic mold are cheap, and can be quickly revisioned so the second stage from all the places can vary widely, but metal model forming is much more time intensive so the first stages are identical, while the second stages vary greatly. That being said, the little I played aroung with it, the second stage parts from my Apeks regs slid right into DiveRite second stage housing.

 

[Capt.Gene]

It's worth noteing that Zeagle walked on the offer to buy Apeks before Aqualung bought the company. The company was not sold out from under them.
Zeagle had distributed the brand for 12 years and knew the engineering and limitations very well and thought it best to go forward with their own evolving design.
Reverse engineering? Maybe. Identical in no way.
Aqualung products in the regulator catagory at the time were pretty much based on the Conshelf design from the 1970's. Well proven yes, selling because of it's new and improved technology, no.

 

[beanojones]

It's worth noteing that Zeagle walked on the offer to buy Apeks before Aqualung bought the company. The company was not sold out from under them.
Zeagle had distributed the brand for 12 years and knew the engineering and limitations very well and thought it best to go forward with their own evolving design.
Reverse engineering? Maybe. Identical in no way.
Aqualung products in the regulator catagory at the time were pretty much based on the Conshelf design from the 1970's. Well proven yes, selling because of it's new and improved technology, no.

The 'identical' was intended in reference to the current HOG/DiveRite/pick your brand that is all made by the same OEM. But the dry environmental chamber of the first stage's function is functionally the same, which was what AquaLung's people were concerned with as far as patents and royalties. The refrain from the AquaLung people I knew was that that dry environmental chamber patent was why they bought the company, as much as any brand recognition, and they pretty made immediate retrofit available for their existing regs. I bought an Dry environmental seal for my SEA as soon as it became available, for instance.

I know Zeagle would specifically not have wanted their own new design regs to look like the Apeks brand. The AquaLung reps were pretty full of noise of how Zeagle regs 'better not' look like the Apeks, and Zeagle probably wanted to differentiate themselves anyway.

 

[Seraphimx]

Well, to go back to the original point of this thread. I'd say go with an authorized dealer and check all the brand and pick one you want. I went with ScubaPro because the LDS that I liked carried ScubaPro, Oceanic, Hollis (Oceanic Rebrand) & Poseidon.

They are more "tech" oriented, and I wanted Poseidon but I followed the voice of reason.

1) Get one that pain in the butt free.
AquaLung or ScubaPro are EVERYWHERE, and it has Lifetime warranty and free parts for yearly checkup (not labor)
2) Don't try to get the most expensive setup, but still get the one you like.
Atomic is cool and good, but for the price you pay you can buy one, corrode it and buy another later on.
3) Shop around, check the prices and bargain, Its your hard earned money. If I would buy now I would really consider HOG, they are DIRT cheap and you can get classes to service them (I've read on these forums). And I really liked the original ATX50.

Wow I think I resurrected a thread from like 6 days ago.

Just check them all out and buy the one you like.

And one more tip, if you wife is anything like my girlfriend just buy whatever YOU like for her. If you give her the choice she'll just take forever to choose, you'll get mad, you'll get in a fight and you won't get any.

 

[steelwindmachine]

thanks for all of the suggestions!

I think for the time being, I'm going to rent regs/bcds/tanks until when and if my yearly diving exceeds 20 dives. I prefer my diving experience to be comfortable, enjoyable and minimal risk. So, you're not going to find me penetrating caves, old wrecks or floating around in non-tropical waters unless I'm in a submarine

So far, used deals on Mares Protons and Sherwood Oasis pique my interest, but the HOG/Edge gear is very appealing due to their reasonable price and availability of parts to the consumer. Since I am mechanically inclined, I would like to develop the knowledge to service my own gear and will eventually pick up the reg service/theory books. I am going to pick up a IP gauge so I can perform some basic tests on my gf and her sister's gear.

 

[Zung]

Wise decision. The more time you have, the better deals you get. Meanwhile, it's a good idea to pick up the 2 holy books on reg servicing and prepare.

But please don't test your gf with an IP gauge.