So, just who is George Irvine III?????

[rjack321]

Whether you believe it or not, a whole lot of divers do and are put off by it.

If "DIR" is an affront to anyone's self worth that's just pathetic. You'll just need to get over it since despite GUE not using that term for 3+ years, its on the internets and nothing every gets deleted from the internet.

 

[elmer fudd]

I agree. I've seen that thought posted way to many times on SB. Frankly, I don't really care about who is what. I've never really been caught up in whether a person is DIR, GUE, or whatever. The best diver I have ever seen in the water is neither. Now when someone invents an artificial gill that you can pop in your mouth and off you go, that group I want to be a part of.

I personally have a lot of respect for the Hogarthian diving/DIR philosophy and fundies is one of the few classes I really am interested in taking, but I don't see any point in trying to pretend that DIR adherents don't have a reputation as being intolerant. Right or wrong, they do.

 

[Superlyte27]

I can't imagine that there are really people out there that are saying they would love to take GUE training but they are just so upset about the internet posts from Mr. Irvine, that they won't do it.

pullmyfinger, it's not that. My take on it is that some of these gue recruits are still holding on to what he said 10+ years ago. I get stories all the time about how people encounter those "nazi's" (their word not mine) and they were either very rude or wouldn't give them the time of day. I hear about it as much as a few times per month.

Fact or Fiction, here's what I do know...
Every time I've come in contact with David Rhea, Dan Patterson, JJ, they have been nothing but professional. I've never spoke to JJ, but I have spent hours talking to David Rhea off and on over the years while we shared the same area teaching. I've been in the store when Dan was at the helm and he's always helpful. He solves problems and answers questions. But, with that said, I get students all the time who have went into that store and came out feeling a bit ostracized.

As far as market share goes. It's the same generation after generation. If there's 100% Market and one group consistently gets 35% but lately is only getting 23%, they are losing market share.

Again, if you think that I'm rehashing old posts is an attempt to protect my rice bowl, then you really aren't familiar with my other job. I take about a 500% pay cut when I stop my real job to teach a cave diving class. Its the reason why I quit teaching people who don't come with impeccable references or super solid core skills.

I'll be honest though. I really thought this was an interesting thread to stumble across years later. Sure, it comes with some bickering back and forth, but still a good debate.

 

[chrpai]

Ignoring the brand and agency (DIR, GUE) .... is it fair to say that many of ideas themselves are gaining traction albeit in a hybridized - mainstream sort of way and not the pure philosphy?

 

[rjack321]

I personally have a lot of respect for the Hogarthian diving/DIR philosophy and fundies is one of the few classes I really am interested in taking, but I don't see any point in trying to pretend that DIR adherents don't have a reputation as being intolerant. Right or wrong, they do.

Intolerant of what exactly?

Elmer I see you are local to Puget Sound somewhere. What exactly did you experience and from whom? Personally don't really care how you dive. And I am only genuinely intolerant of posers and stupid people. There's one local poser and you're not that person. And every village has an idiot or 2, right now we have one notable one.

---------- Post added April 9th, 2013 at 03:57 PM ----------

Ignoring the brand and agency (DIR, GUE) .... is it fair to say that many of ideas themselves are gaining traction albeit in a hybridized - mainstream sort of way and not the pure philosphy?

At least locally backplate/wings are exceptionally popular (because they work). And gas management classes (by non-GUE instructors teaching essentially GUE-F level recreational gas management) are very popular. Dive fitness? not so much.

 

[elmer fudd]

If "DIR" is an affront to anyone's self worth that's just pathetic. You'll just need to get over it since despite GUE not using that term for 3+ years, its on the internets and nothing every gets deleted from the internet.

I don't think it has to do with being an affront to anyone's self worth. Rather it has to do with peoples dislike of authoritarianism. Now sometimes authoritarianism is absolutely necessary. You don't run an army or a prison or a team of divers a mile deep in a cave with everyone free to do their own thing. To do so would be a recipe for disaster, but other divers who aren't involved in extreme forms of diving, look at it and think, "they say I can't wear split fins or ankle weights or...well f-that." Right or wrong, that is the perception and people like GI3 played right into it. Just read the scuba snopes thread over on the basic forum for examples of this sentiment.

 

[daniel f aleman]

At least locally backplate/wings are exceptionally popular (because they work). And gas management classes (by non-GUE instructors teaching essentially GUE-F level recreational gas management) are very popular. Dive fitness? not so much.

You can thank Dive Rite for the modern BP/W. DIR is for those of you who don't know how to dive, and never will.

 

[elmer fudd]

Intolerant of what exactly?

Elmer I see you are local to Puget Sound somewhere. What exactly did you experience and from whom? Personally don't really care how you dive. And I am only genuinely intolerant of posers and stupid people. There's one local poser and you're not that person. And every village has an idiot or 2, right now we have one notable one.

I've just heard comments from a number of divers that have an aversion to it. My usual dive buddy for example has been encouraged to take fundies and adopt a DIR rig as part of some volunteer work he's been doing, (don't want to really go too into details about his personal business here). Basically, he's dead set against it. I don't know why exactly, but he emphatically does not like the DIR philosophy. A dive shop owner out on the peninsula asked me if I was DIR upon seeing my BPW and harness. When I told him I wasn't he proceeded to rip on DIR for awhile. Another diver I met told me about going on a dive with DIR divers and mentioned incredulously how they spent 10 minutes going over each others rigs for a shore dive.

There's more than that too, and like I said earlier, I personally don't have a problem with DIR, but it seems obvious that they do have a perception problem.

 

[danvolker]

You can thank Dive Rite for the modern BP/W. DIR is for those of you who don't know how to dive, and never will.

You mean Halcyon.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I've just heard comments from a number of divers that have an aversion to it. My usual dive buddy for example has been encouraged to take fundies and adopt a DIR rig as part of some volunteer work he's been doing, (don't want to really go too into details about his personal business here). Basically, he's dead set against it. I don't know why exactly, but he emphatically does not like the DIR philosophy. A dive shop owner out on the peninsula asked me if I was DIR upon seeing my BPW and harness. When I told him I wasn't he proceeded to rip on DIR for awhile. Another diver I met told me about going on a dive with DIR divers and mentioned incredulously how they spent 10 minutes going over each others rigs for a shore dive.

There's more than that too, and like I said earlier, I personally don't have a problem with DIR, but it seems obvious that they do have a perception problem.

I think that might be where some of the negative sentiment keeps getting perpetuated from.
Some dive shops just want to protect their rice bowl; training and sales.

New divers hear it from the shops, and then they have the idea of GUE divers being arrogant planted in their heads.
Believe me....there's plenty of arrogance to go around in the diving bubble we all live in.

I've seen plenty of chest thumping from DM's.
Often people's enthusiasm get's perceived as arrogant.

I get a feeling that there are shops out there that love perpetuating the negative GUE thing....they might stand to benefit from that, no?

When you start hearing the anti-GUE "pitch"......consider why that might be.

I wonder what motivates Mr. Aleman's post above.
He sounds as bad as some of those postings from over a decade before.

I don't see the point in it......but....this IS the internet.


Cheers,
Mitch

---------- Post added April 9th, 2013 at 03:35 PM ----------

You mean Halcyon.

I thought it was a single individual that came up with the idea.
Moot point....many have copied it, with some variations here and there.

Cheers,
Mitch