Not being able to spell the word "Definition" would qualify you as a stroke..
Simple Question : Defination of STROKE
- Thread starter blackice
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yeah...dude at the front "strokes the 1st 8"
sorry I couldn;t resist
norcaldiver
Guest
Well, I had a heart attack while diving, so while not quite a stroke diver, I guess I'm the closest to it.
ElectricZombie
Contributor
I disagree. It's not about "I'm better than you." at all. "Stroke" is just a label that implies that the diver in question has some problems that need resolving...they know that they are not doing things very effectively and don't care to change. It's just like saying that the guy with his tank mounted upside down is unsafe.
Because their style and ability directly effects my safety if I am diving with them. If they are not diving with me, I could care less what they do.
DIR isn't trying to make people feel bad or push them away, it seems to be quite the opposite actually. They do have high levels of skill but it is not some sort of exclusive club or anything.
Labels are needed to distinguish between differences. It's important to know what you are dealing with and these labels provide some info.
Maybe not but, I have yet to see any other agency even mention the skills/methods taught in a DIR-F class.
I guess you heard one of the George audio files. Again, stroke is just a label, no need to get offended. This is just my opinion but, I think PADI deserves to be poked fun at. A lot of the stuff they do and condone needs to be questioned.
The focus of that file is only gear...that's why nothing else was mentioned. They talk about other stuff in other files. I didn't get the impression that they were just bragging, etc.
There are guys out there who know a hell of a lot more about diving than I do. I'm willing to look at their suggestions and see what makes sense. DIR makes sense to me...maybe not to you...and that's ok. The main point is to make people aware of DIR and let them choose for themselves.
Labels such as these inherently come with a negative connotation which is neither effective or productive. DIR, as I said has a lot of great aspects about it.
Why would a DIR diver dive with a non DIR diver or rather a diver that is considered unsafe anyway? Stroke isn't used solely for those that refuse to dive safely. Its used to poke fun at those that don't do things the way the person using the label does them. There is no wrong and right way to dive... Thats like saying that one type of car is the only way to go... DIRF (Doing It Right- Ford... that wouldn't fly with everyone either) There's never only one right way to do anything.
DIR itself is a misnomer... their opinions and methods change... so really what was DIR at one time is now Doing It Wrong... Thats how everything in diving is. We see problems with something that we once thought was the way to go and change it. DIR is nothing new... It's just as much hype and about selling something as anything else is in this industry. Either you're DIR are you're doing it wrong, right? Thats a powerful statement... and not really a true one.
Labels are meant to separate one thing from another, not bring them together. Who wants to hang out with the "dork" at school? Same deal here... Maybe hard to admit or swallow... but the psychology is the same. It's the same attitude that kept a lot of people from becoming divers many years ago... Dive instructors belittling someone because they weren't oddly enough, doing it right... Anybody remember those times? Diving got away from that, but just like the DIR tapes say that we're getting back to older style diving equipment some seem to be getting back to that "You shouldn't be a diver because you aren't as good as me" attitude.
Why would a DIR diver dive with a non DIR diver or rather a diver that is considered unsafe anyway? Stroke isn't used solely for those that refuse to dive safely. Its used to poke fun at those that don't do things the way the person using the label does them. There is no wrong and right way to dive... Thats like saying that one type of car is the only way to go... DIRF (Doing It Right- Ford... that wouldn't fly with everyone either) There's never only one right way to do anything.
DIR itself is a misnomer... their opinions and methods change... so really what was DIR at one time is now Doing It Wrong... Thats how everything in diving is. We see problems with something that we once thought was the way to go and change it. DIR is nothing new... It's just as much hype and about selling something as anything else is in this industry. Either you're DIR are you're doing it wrong, right? Thats a powerful statement... and not really a true one.
Labels are meant to separate one thing from another, not bring them together. Who wants to hang out with the "dork" at school? Same deal here... Maybe hard to admit or swallow... but the psychology is the same. It's the same attitude that kept a lot of people from becoming divers many years ago... Dive instructors belittling someone because they weren't oddly enough, doing it right... Anybody remember those times? Diving got away from that, but just like the DIR tapes say that we're getting back to older style diving equipment some seem to be getting back to that "You shouldn't be a diver because you aren't as good as me" attitude.
kalvyn
Guest
I really like the band The Strokes. This is what I think of every time I hear the term stroke...
Jimmie
Jimmie
MHK
Guest
I want to emphisis that I have no desire, intention or willingness to engage, defend or parse words respecting this issue. However, for those that care and for those that feel the term is derogatory let me provide context and then I'll bow out of this thread and allow everyone to arrive at there own conclusions.
Initially the term "stroke" was coined by Parker Turner and George Irvine [ both of whom at one time or another headed the WKPP]. Early on the WKPP was mostly known only within the Florida cave diving community and many within that circle really wanted to be part of the WKPP. Parker and George, for good reason, run a tight ship and you just don't "sign up" and become a member of the team. Alot of hard work and substantial skill is involved in becoming a team member. However, early on many prospective members would cojole Parker and George by "stroking" their ego's and "stroking" them with their impressive diving credentials.. Resume's mean little in the WKPP, what counts is skill in the water.. Accordingly, the original derivation was amongst the team referring to someone who had little skill, but nonetheless wanted to be part of the team.. As word of the success of the WKPP accomplishements spread throughout the cave and general diving population the definition of the term "stroke" became to be generically associated with simply divers with an unsafe attitude..
I don't worry too much about labels, I spend my efforts worrying about skill, but for those that worry about substance over form that is the derivation of the term, so please do with it as you may.. I was asked to comment on this thread, those are my thoughts so bear in mind I will NOT engage in a debate over a term that was coined well before I became affiliated with GUE..
Regards
Initially the term "stroke" was coined by Parker Turner and George Irvine [ both of whom at one time or another headed the WKPP]. Early on the WKPP was mostly known only within the Florida cave diving community and many within that circle really wanted to be part of the WKPP. Parker and George, for good reason, run a tight ship and you just don't "sign up" and become a member of the team. Alot of hard work and substantial skill is involved in becoming a team member. However, early on many prospective members would cojole Parker and George by "stroking" their ego's and "stroking" them with their impressive diving credentials.. Resume's mean little in the WKPP, what counts is skill in the water.. Accordingly, the original derivation was amongst the team referring to someone who had little skill, but nonetheless wanted to be part of the team.. As word of the success of the WKPP accomplishements spread throughout the cave and general diving population the definition of the term "stroke" became to be generically associated with simply divers with an unsafe attitude..
I don't worry too much about labels, I spend my efforts worrying about skill, but for those that worry about substance over form that is the derivation of the term, so please do with it as you may.. I was asked to comment on this thread, those are my thoughts so bear in mind I will NOT engage in a debate over a term that was coined well before I became affiliated with GUE..
Regards
That sure isn't how it "sounds" when it is being applied
How about The National Association of Cave Divers? I have met and dove with a couple of Full Cave certified (NACD) divers that are not "DIR" certified, know they are good divers and have good skills. Does this make them Strokes? Funny - they can do helicopter turns, skills while horizontal and neutral, valve drills, swim backwards, frog kicks, long hose around the neck, bungied backup, streamlined gear. Huh.
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