Simple Question : Defination of STROKE

[Big-t-2538]

Not being able to spell the word "Definition" would qualify you as a stroke..

 

[Big-t-2538]

blackice once bubbled...

something like ..
stern : cox, stroke, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 : bow

yeah...dude at the front "strokes the 1st 8"

sorry I couldn;t resist

 

[jamiei]

Charlie99, I'm trying to relocate that info....

 

[norcaldiver]

Well, I had a heart attack while diving, so while not quite a stroke diver, I guess I'm the closest to it.

 

[ElectricZombie]

jamiei once bubbled...
It's just a simple way for someone to say they're better than someone else or thats someone is different and therefore better or lessor instead of just sharing knowledge and ideas.

I disagree. It's not about "I'm better than you." at all. "Stroke" is just a label that implies that the diver in question has some problems that need resolving...they know that they are not doing things very effectively and don't care to change. It's just like saying that the guy with his tank mounted upside down is unsafe.

Why even comment on someone else's dive style or ability? Why waste your time? Cause it separates the "cool" divers from the "not cool" divers.

Because their style and ability directly effects my safety if I am diving with them. If they are not diving with me, I could care less what they do.

Thats a big part of DIR no matter how you cut it unfortunately. Many of the principles of DIR are absolutely great, but the jist of it being some elite group is not.

DIR isn't trying to make people feel bad or push them away, it seems to be quite the opposite actually. They do have high levels of skill but it is not some sort of exclusive club or anything.

Why do we have to label everything? You're a stroke... thats DIR... thats not DIR...

Labels are needed to distinguish between differences. It's important to know what you are dealing with and these labels provide some info.

Does DIR have ownership of certain skills or methods? No, not at all...

Maybe not but, I have yet to see any other agency even mention the skills/methods taught in a DIR-F class.

I listened to some DIR audio's the other day that happily poked fun at PADI and used the term stroke a lot. No one can deny that PADI has done more positive for the dive industry as a whole than any other single group. If there was never a PADI, the dive industry, tech diving included, wouldn't be where its at today, technoligically or otherwise.

I guess you heard one of the George audio files. Again, stroke is just a label, no need to get offended. This is just my opinion but, I think PADI deserves to be poked fun at. A lot of the stuff they do and condone needs to be questioned.

I heard a lot of BS, but nothing really about diving techniques other than whats wrong with certain gear setups... more than anything it was a commentary on how those guys felt they were better divers than anyone else.

The focus of that file is only gear...that's why nothing else was mentioned. They talk about other stuff in other files. I didn't get the impression that they were just bragging, etc.

Guys, who gives a flying f@#k about what anyone else thinks is best for them? Take the info thats available and make the decision for yourself and let other divers do the same...

There are guys out there who know a hell of a lot more about diving than I do. I'm willing to look at their suggestions and see what makes sense. DIR makes sense to me...maybe not to you...and that's ok. The main point is to make people aware of DIR and let them choose for themselves.

 

[jamiei]

Labels such as these inherently come with a negative connotation which is neither effective or productive. DIR, as I said has a lot of great aspects about it.

Why would a DIR diver dive with a non DIR diver or rather a diver that is considered unsafe anyway? Stroke isn't used solely for those that refuse to dive safely. Its used to poke fun at those that don't do things the way the person using the label does them. There is no wrong and right way to dive... Thats like saying that one type of car is the only way to go... DIRF (Doing It Right- Ford... that wouldn't fly with everyone either) There's never only one right way to do anything.

DIR itself is a misnomer... their opinions and methods change... so really what was DIR at one time is now Doing It Wrong... Thats how everything in diving is. We see problems with something that we once thought was the way to go and change it. DIR is nothing new... It's just as much hype and about selling something as anything else is in this industry. Either you're DIR are you're doing it wrong, right? Thats a powerful statement... and not really a true one.

Labels are meant to separate one thing from another, not bring them together. Who wants to hang out with the "dork" at school? Same deal here... Maybe hard to admit or swallow... but the psychology is the same. It's the same attitude that kept a lot of people from becoming divers many years ago... Dive instructors belittling someone because they weren't oddly enough, doing it right... Anybody remember those times? Diving got away from that, but just like the DIR tapes say that we're getting back to older style diving equipment some seem to be getting back to that "You shouldn't be a diver because you aren't as good as me" attitude.

 

[jamiei]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...


I guess you heard one of the George audio files. Again, stroke is just a label, no need to get offended. This is just my opinion but, I think PADI deserves to be poked fun at. A lot of the stuff they do and condone needs to be questioned.


Do you make fun of your grandparents when they get old and don't remember things or do embarresing things? No... without the people that put us where we are, where would we be? Padi does some stupid stuff just like everybody else does... I think at the very least, you respect Padi for the number of divers that they have got into diving which has a direct affect on the quality and safety of the gear and training we have today. Few divers=no money=no research and development=crappy gear and diver knowledge=diver accidents... If you don't have fans coming to Braves games, you won't have a good team. Simple as that. Padi brings the fans to the game to spend their money. Knock it if you want to, but if you're smart you realize you need it to survive. With no crime, there's no need for the police... no divers, there's no need for equipment manufacturers or dive shops.

I'm not against DIR at all and I'm not a big fan of Padi either, but my views don't keep me from seeing the big picture.

 

[kalvyn]

I really like the band The Strokes. This is what I think of every time I hear the term stroke...

Jimmie

 

[MHK]

I want to emphisis that I have no desire, intention or willingness to engage, defend or parse words respecting this issue. However, for those that care and for those that feel the term is derogatory let me provide context and then I'll bow out of this thread and allow everyone to arrive at there own conclusions.

Initially the term "stroke" was coined by Parker Turner and George Irvine [ both of whom at one time or another headed the WKPP]. Early on the WKPP was mostly known only within the Florida cave diving community and many within that circle really wanted to be part of the WKPP. Parker and George, for good reason, run a tight ship and you just don't "sign up" and become a member of the team. Alot of hard work and substantial skill is involved in becoming a team member. However, early on many prospective members would cojole Parker and George by "stroking" their ego's and "stroking" them with their impressive diving credentials.. Resume's mean little in the WKPP, what counts is skill in the water.. Accordingly, the original derivation was amongst the team referring to someone who had little skill, but nonetheless wanted to be part of the team.. As word of the success of the WKPP accomplishements spread throughout the cave and general diving population the definition of the term "stroke" became to be generically associated with simply divers with an unsafe attitude..

I don't worry too much about labels, I spend my efforts worrying about skill, but for those that worry about substance over form that is the derivation of the term, so please do with it as you may.. I was asked to comment on this thread, those are my thoughts so bear in mind I will NOT engage in a debate over a term that was coined well before I became affiliated with GUE..

Regards

 

[Snowbear]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...

I disagree. It's not about "I'm better than you." at all. "Stroke" is just a label that implies that the diver in question has some problems that need resolving...they know that they are not doing things very effectively and don't care to change. It's just like saying that the guy with his tank mounted upside down is unsafe.

That sure isn't how it "sounds" when it is being applied

ElectricZombie once bubbled...

Maybe not but, I have yet to see any other agency even mention the skills/methods taught in a DIR-F class.

How about The National Association of Cave Divers? I have met and dove with a couple of Full Cave certified (NACD) divers that are not "DIR" certified, know they are good divers and have good skills. Does this make them Strokes? Funny - they can do helicopter turns, skills while horizontal and neutral, valve drills, swim backwards, frog kicks, long hose around the neck, bungied backup, streamlined gear. Huh.