Silent World Review 11/28 - 30 With new ownership (long)

[TSandM]

Many years ago, I was part of a wreck workshop in Seattle. We booked a boat for the third day of class, to do "experience dives" on a local wreck. The morning of the dives, the weather was HORRIBLE. The wind was howling, it had rained hard all night, and Puget Sound was the color of hot chocolate from the particulates washing down from the flooding rivers. We had swell and WAVES (rare for us!) and the thought of getting on a small boat and going out to dive was not attractive at all. I was SURE the captain would cancel . . . but of course, if he canceled, he had to refund our money. On the other hand, if he hauled us out to the dive site (which he did) and WE decided not to dive because it wasn't safe (which we did) we were out the $125 a head charter fee.

I found it irritating but I couldn't argue with the fact that we paid him to get us to the dive site, which he did.

If the boat stood ready to take you where you wanted to dive, and you didn't want to go there, then I think they were within their rights to refuse to refund your money. Not attractive behavior, but not wrong. It just depends on how much they want to keep you as a customer.

Did they lay on the third dive the next day to make up for it? If so, and you weren't charged extra for it, what did you lose?

 

[Superlyte27]

I think everyone is missing the point. Apparently Violet has a policy of cancelling at 4-6', Which seems reasonable to me. However, they were charged for not wanting to dive 5-8'.

 

[Wookie]

I think everyone is missing the point. Apparently Violet has a policy of cancelling at 4-6', Which seems reasonable to me. However, they were charged for not wanting to dive 5-8'.

Wave height, in the absense of NDBC buoys, has become subjective. The OP stated on his first post that the wave height was 6-10's. SW described it as 5-8's on the SG. With a NE or a NNE wind, it probably would have been less on the reef. Conch Republic described it as 4-7's on their SG/Duane trip. Wave height measurement is an exact science, if you happen to have a million dollar buoy hanging around, which NOAA doesn't any more.

The OP states

I had spoke with Violet about the conditions. She had told me it was looking good that they will go out in 3-5's but will cancel if 4-6's are predicted.

I don't know what was predicted, but Voilet didn't say that they wouldn't go in 4-6 actual,she said they wouldn't go if the forecast was for 4-6's. They are relying on forecasting, which is not an exact science. I have never in my life seen a forecast for the reef of 4-6's. The reef forecast is usually 2-4's, even in the worst SE wind.

I'm not saying that the OP doesn't have a complaint. I'm not saying that Todd couldn't have handled this better. What I'm saying is that the dive op seems to have handled this within their terms and conditions, which are always written to benefit the dive op. What I take away fom this is to read the terms and conditions carefully before booking, and if you ask the op to deviate from them, make sure that everyone is clear up front what you are asking for, and what the expected outcome is.

As an aside, I won't go in a forecasted wave height of anything over 4-6's either. We may never go in 4-6's, but we've been caught out there in far bigger seas many times.

 

[Capt Gary]

I have to agree with Frank on wave heights. They are very subjective and to be honest the smaller the boat the bigger the waves look. Another factor that comes into play with waves is the period between them. That is the time between the peaks of the waves. The longer the period the smother the ride. I've been in 25' seas with a 30 sec period and it was like riding a gentle roller coaster, but if you took those same waves in a 5 sec period then your in for a tail kicking.

We get divers in who I won't take out in 4' seas just because they are newbies. Getting off the boat is not a big deal, but getting back on is. Then again I have divers who I know can navigate 6' - 8' seas with no issues what so ever. Sound like this was the case here, minus a few bumps getting back on the ladder.

When it comes to weather and wave conditions, I've come to know that NOAA is wrong more times than not on their forecasting. We will usually go out and take a peak, if the divers want to but we let them know there will be a fuel charge if we decide to turn around. Wave height, the period between them, current and wind conditions all play a roll in determining if we go out and/or let our divers get in the water.

Again what Frank says. read and understand the terms and conditions before you book, and make sure everyone is on the same page if you want to deviate from them. It's all about having fun. And those bumps, bruises, and scraped up legs are not fun when you're on the receiving end.

Good Diving,
Capt Gary

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think everyone is missing the point. Apparently Violet has a policy of cancelling at 4-6', Which seems reasonable to me. However, they were charged for not wanting to dive 5-8'.

I didn't miss that and that is the critical point to the situation They had a verbal contract and she is reported to have violated it. I would contest the charge.

 

[Wookie]

I didn't miss that and that is the critical point to the situation They had a verbal contract and she is reported to have violated it. I would contest the charge.

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but here is the nearshore forecast for the 29th. Seas inside the reef are forecasted at 3-5, within Silent World's criteria for a go call.

National Weather Service

Coastal Waters Forecast COASTAL WATERS FORECAST FOR THE FLORIDA KEYS NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE KEY WEST FL 426 AM EST FRI NOV 29 2013 FLORIDA BAY...HAWK CHANNEL AND STRAITS OF FLORIDA FROM OCEAN REEF TO SOUTH OF DRY TORTUGAS...AND THE EXTREME SOUTHEASTERN GULF OF MEXICO...INCLUDING THE FLORIDA KEYS NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY SEAS ARE GIVEN AS SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT...WHICH IS THE AVERAGE HEIGHT OF THE HIGHEST 1/3 OF THE WAVES. INDIVIDUAL WAVES MAY BE MORE THAN TWICE THE SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT. GMZ005-291530- SYNOPSIS FOR KEYS COASTAL WATERS FROM OCEAN REEF TO DRY TORTUGAS 426 AM EST FRI NOV 29 2013 .SYNOPSIS...FRESH TO STRONG NORTHEAST BREEZES WILL PERSIST TODAY THROUGH SATURDAY AS A LARGE HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM MOVES TO THE NORTHEAST ACROSS THE EASTERN UNITED STATES. BREEZES WILL DECREASE LATE THIS WEEKEND INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK.

HAWK CHANNEL FROM CRAIG KEY TO WEST END OF SEVEN MILE BRIDGE OUT TO THE REEF- HAWK CHANNEL FROM WEST END OF SEVEN MILE BRIDGE TO HALFMOON SHOAL OUT TO THE REEF- 426 AM EST FRI NOV 29 2013 ...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT... .TODAY...NORTHEAST WINDS NEAR 20 KNOTS AND GUSTY. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS ROUGH. ISOLATED SHOWERS. .TONIGHT...NORTHEAST WINDS NEAR 20 KNOTS AND GUSTY. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS ROUGH. ISOLATED SHOWERS. .SATURDAY...NORTHEAST WINDS NEAR 20 KNOTS...DECREASING TO 15 TO 20 KNOTS. SEAS 2 TO 4 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS ROUGH...BECOMING CHOPPY. .SATURDAY NIGHT...NORTHEAST WINDS 15 TO 20 KNOTS...DECREASING TO NEAR 15 KNOTS. SEAS 2 TO 3 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS CHOPPY...BECOMING A MODERATE CHOP. .SUNDAY...NORTHEAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 1 TO 3 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS A LIGHT TO MODERATE CHOP. .SUNDAY NIGHT...NORTH TO NORTHEAST WINDS NEAR 10 KNOTS. SEAS 1 TO 2 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS A LIGHT CHOP. .MONDAY THROUGH TUESDAY NIGHT...NORTH TO NORTHEAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 1 TO 3 FEET. NEARSHORE WATERS A LIGHT TO MODERATE CHOP. ISOLATED SHOWERS.

 

[RDRINK25]

LIke I stated in the review... All hell broke loose once we got out. The ride in was not much better. Nothing about the forecast was correct for that day. Todd posted on his Facebook 5-8's and he downplayed it. I heard them talking 10's and it sure did look like it.

In the end there will be people who read this that have different opinions. Thats why it is a review.

I was not after money I would of been happy with 2 tee shirts. I even stated up until then I was a HAPPY customer. The communication between Todd and I was none. When we had discussed not going back out and just diving tomorrow. Maybe the Capt should of reminded us his policy. Then we might of had a different choice.

Again this is my review of a shop.

 

[tajkd]

Sorry for your experience. I, unfortunately have to side with the op in this one. You (the client) were the one who cancelled the trip. In any world, that means you don't get a refund. He could have tried working it out with you but I don't think he had to. He followed his written procedures to the letter.

Most ops will try to work with you if they can. The previous owners at Silent World would give you a voucher if they cancelled the dive and they even gave me one when the captain and I agreed not to dive in the pm. The new guys may not want to do that or they may have taken umbrage at your letter. I agree with Wookie that it is threatening. I may have responded the same way.

 

[conchrandy]

Technically, the Shop was right. If they're willing to operate, then it's diver's choice. Agree, that the height of waves are second to intervals and consistency. A bad choice for the Shop to state a policy about wave height. Got them in trouble. I have operated trips in 6-8 that were far better than 3-5. Very subjective.

That being said, perhaps a bad decision keep the cash on a marginal day. Refund as opposed to unhappy guests and reviews, any day. My own policy is to let people back out of a trip for any or no reason, offering a complete refund, even 10 minutes before departure. Best in the long run.

 

[deeper thoughts]

Probably as stated in the long run it would of been cheaper to refund the money. What is the price of bad publicity in the age of 24-7 internet?