Should Padi OW be called Resort Diver?

[TMHeimer]

LOL no, no im just confused as to who gets the final say on what constitutes a resort diver as opposed to the guys getting their Cards to go on charters as mentioned in the OP..im one of the latter..but im not a guy

I would guess the charters/shops at the resorts would be the only ones who really should get the final say as every diver is different. For example, a "serious" diver at some point could turn into a resort diver later on as life gets in the way or he gets tired of local diving. There are two ways the shop could determine this. One is simply check out certification level and recent dive activity and trust the diver that it is true (this seems to be the norm in N.A.). This also was the case on my one trip to Panama. The other more exact way would be for the resort to do a checkout dive (and this seems to offend some serious divers)--seems to be more common in the tropics, so I hear.

 

[Tigerman]

LOL no, no im just confused as to who gets the final say on what constitutes a resort diver as opposed to the guys getting their Cards to go on charters as mentioned in the OP..im one of the latter..but im not a guy

Thats why you have (god forbid) checkout dives.
Just as not everyone with a drivers license is someone Id want to ride with, not everyone with any other certs is "up to speed" either..

 

[DCBC]

For the purpose of clarity (and in the effort to answer the OP's question), how many of you think that the PADI OW Program (NAUI Basic) should be renamed Resort Diver and restricted to Supervised Diving only? For those that do, what is the next step of progression? (at the same time I acknowledge DevonDiver's comments on this point in Post 25, of which I agree, for the most part).

 

[Tigerman]

...
The other more exact way would be for the resort to do a checkout dive (and this seems to offend some serious divers)--seems to be more common in the tropics, so I hear.

It actually surprise me that its not more common in N.A. where people love to sue eachother for everything and anything..

 

[drrich2]

Then why would there be a problem if their certification provided an accurate representation of their abilities?

Because it would restrict them from diving options that are within their abilities at times. As I mentioned, there are places, like quarries and some shore diving sites, where many of these people could dive okay without a 'supervisor.' But quarry owners wouldn't allow it out of liability concerns, which would be a significant restriction for some people.

It's not a matter what people want. It's about what is reasonable. If the Diver doesn't have the skill-sets to dive safely unsupervised. Why should an Instructor give him a C-Card that indicates that he can?

In a capitalistic society with choices (e.g.: PADI, SSI, SDI, etc...), what the paying customer wants is a huge issue. If PADI changed OW to 'resort diver,' I foresee good, good times for SSI keeping with their current practices.

And the 'if the diver doesn't have the skill sets to dive safely unsupervised' is too gross an over-generalization. Many divers do for quarries and the easier shore diving sites, and don't for open ocean boat sites with rougher seas & limited viz.

There are shades of gray.

Richard.

 

[PeterNBiddle]

Lol I love this threads, some times just snubs.

I will put an example....

Should I call you incompetent because you use a computer with Windows os or Mac?. If you don't know how to use Linux and compile a custom kernel then you don't know how to use a computer....?

Only if I get to call you incompetent because you didn't write a Turing-complete hyper visor that runs underneath Windows, Mac and Linux...

Which is to say, yeah, I think we agree it's all relative. : )

 

[Bob DBF]

Something has been ticking away at the back of my lil brain.
This ALL refers to freshly minted divers NOT guys who have their card cos they need it to do charter dives etc.
From what I've seen,experienced and heard the Padi open water dive course doesn't equip you to go out with your buddy and run your own dive. According to Padi it does but reality seems to be totally different.
Once someone has a few dives under their belt and/or have done the "advanced" course they have the skills needed to dive proficiently. Their weighting is about right,they have good Boyancy control etc.
On that basis I just wonder if the Padi OW shouldn't be called resort diver and you dive with a dive master as a minimum.
Maybee I'm overthinking this.

Overthinking. It makes no difference what you call OW, the demand is for the card that's lets you dive independently, and there will be those who will sell them with minimal or substandard classes so the problem will remain. Until Instructors are held to a higher standard by their Agency, Caveat emptor.



Bob
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"If you don't like it, go on the internet and complain." Brian Griffin

 

[oly5050user]

I would guess the charters/shops at the resorts would be the only ones who really should get the final say as every diver is different. For example, a "serious" diver at some point could turn into a resort diver later on as life gets in the way or he gets tired of local diving. There are two ways the shop could determine this. One is simply check out certification level and recent dive activity and trust the diver that it is true (this seems to be the norm in N.A.). This also was the case on my one trip to Panama.

The other more exact way would be for the resort to do a checkout dive (and this seems to offend some serious divers)--seems to be more common in the tropics, so I hear.

I would not be offended in any way..I can have a bit of fun with it ..like putting mask on upside down and clearing it..or putting a toy plastic fish in it while clearing it..wearing fins upside down and still able to do skills..list can go on and on

 

[Tigerman]

I would not be offended in any way..I can have a bit of fun with it ..like putting mask on upside down and clearing it..or putting a toy plastic fish in it while clearing it..wearing fins upside down and still able to do skills..list can go on and on

Swimming with the fins on the hands..
although, that dont comply too well with taking photos of the bikini fish..

 

[TSandM]

What I find interesting here is the assumption that a supervisor is going to make that much difference. When I reflect on my woeful skills when I finished OW, I don't think anything but a one-on-one escort would have helped, and even that would have been limited. I know from my experiences as a DM that there is only so much you can do with someone who has terribly buoyancy control!

The one thing that a guide can reliably do is absolve the diver of responsibility for navigation. It is more the boat captain's responsibility to avoid dropping divers into hazardous sites -- if you put someone into diving conditions they can't manage, a dive guide is not going to be able to do much about the fact that they can't handle current or they can't do a blue water ascent.

No matter what certification you have, from OW through Trimix, there are going to be dives that will push your envelope of competence. It's up to the individual to be prudent, although instructors can help by impressing the student with the limits of their current training. Our Rec Triox instructor DID say, "Go out and get your butts handed to you," but by that, he meant go diving -- immerse yourself in varying conditions, some of which may be stressful, but you will build capacity as you are tested. My cave instructor told us to observe some very conservative limits (more conservative than the limits of the card itself) for the first 8 dives; he wanted to be sure we DIDN'T get our butts handed to us. But I think many OW divers are quite capable of executing simple dives in undemanding conditions by themselves, and would be quite stressed with managing a dive in unfamiliar conditions (eg. surf entry for a Seattleite). I don't think you can write a card description that says it better than the certification does: The diver is certified to dive under conditions similar to, or better than the ones in which he got certified.