Should PADI change Advanced Open Water Diver Standards?

[pir8]

Any card is only a license to learn. Even an Instructor Card

 

[ReefHound]

The answer I wanted to give - Both - was not an option in the poll. I think a course called "Advanced" should be significantly advanced, to the degree a diver is typically not ready for it right after basic open water. Something like the DIR-F course. I also think there needs to be an open water follow up course like the SSI Adventurer to set the hook a little deeper and draw the new student deeper into this addiction. And to tidy things up from basic OW.

 

[stimpy4242]

ooh...ok sorry..so you do 24 dives on your own/with buddy and then do ,what is it,4 specialties? Lets say each specialty is $200.so thats still $800. in course fees.

Rentals(say $400.)/boat fees(go with $400.)/entry fees /new gear purchases all stay the same.Now up to $1600.Most do not want to pay that for an advance card.
Thats without costs of the 24 "experience "dives.

What do you learn during these 24 dives that you do on your own?
Some people do greatly benefit from doing them on an experience level, they may even have a experienced buddy/mentor,but what of those people that have unsafe pratices to begin with,all they are doing is reenforcing the errors 24 times on their own and making it habit.Seems to me that the learning curve can be shortened if a person is shown how to dive safely in a program/course, with an instructor without repeating same errors 24 times.

You learn a lot doing things on your own, I would venture to guess thats how most things start...people doing things through trial and error...I mean from the first dive you do you are already learning, bouancy is certainly learned over time...

Also you are really assuming the worst with everything, first he posted the class prices. Also you are saying rental equipment...people could have their own gear too. Then you can't say in your next post ok 2000 dollars in gear...no because the gear they buy is for all their diving, not just for the class they are doing. You say boat fees, but I know a lot of diving that happens without boats, there are quarries and lakes and shore diving.

 

[ucfdiver]

Do you really mean to compare GUE and NACD with AOW instead of OW? AFAIK neither offer OW.

No, I'm saying I take OW certs with a grain of salt....Until they start getting better instructor standards, and stop allowing "group" tests (let's face it, a LOT of instructors do this!), I have no way of knowing if the person successfully completed the course, or was given the card so an instructor could pay the light bill that month.

 

[garyfotodiver]

You did not. You took several courses. After successfully completing them and showing 24 logged dives, you bought an advanced card.

As I wrote earlier, I am sorry you do not approve of my English skills.

By the definition you appear to use, EVERYBODY then "buys" a card...

 

[Azza]

<snip>the PADI "advanced" class course <snip>

PADI dont have an "Advanced Class". They have an Advanced OPEN WATER diver class, after which the diver is still an OPEN WATER diver, just more advanced "technically" than the guy who has only done the first course.

 

[ucfdiver]

PADI dont have an "Advanced Class". They have an Advanced OPEN WATER diver class, after which the diver is still an OPEN WATER diver, just more advanced "technically" than the guy who has only done the first course.

Honest question since I see you're an instructor.

If you see an OW diver card, and an AOW diver card, each from a diver you haven't met before, do you honestly expect one to be a better diver than the other?

I think that's kinda the point of this thread. I've said it before.....scrap the AOW card and teach divers what they need to learn in OW class to begin with. If you need to make it more expensive, do it.

 

[Azza]

Any card is only a license to learn. Even an Instructor Card

Really?
I wouldnt say an instructor card is a license to learn diving skills...there were no new "diving skills" on my instructor course....

 

[Azza]

Honest question since I see you're an instructor.

If you see an OW diver card, and an AOW diver card, each from a diver you haven't met before, do you honestly expect one to be a better diver than the other?

I think that's kinda the point of this thread. I've said it before.....scrap the AOW card and teach divers what they need to learn in OW class to begin with. If you need to make it more expensive, do it.

Depends...a good mate of mine still only holds an OW card and has around 400 dives, most of them deeper than 30 metres.
You can be an AOW diver at 9 dives....

All cards are a crock of **** anyway....

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

24 dives to get the card!
How much to charge for this ,and who is going to pay it?
As an instructor teaching for a facility I would want ,at a minimum,$20. per dive,per student to do this.So looking at $480. per student in pay alone. I would need to charge more money for any classroom /academic sessions so at a rate of $16. PER HR lets say 6 sessions(one per speciality at 3 hrs each thats 18 hr total of $280.Now there may be boat fees,lets say thats now $720,or quarry entry fees..(thats a very low estimate).Books $50.or more..
Rental gear/new gear to do dives-lights/reel/lift bag/etc..rental gear alone you are looking at $600..or more for purchasing own....
So this course can cost someone a minimum of $2,130.thats without the facilities profit put in also ,that could be another $300./$400...-now its up to $2430.
It would be a good measure of experience but very few people would commit the time and money to do it.

The point is that they are diving without an instructor for most of that. They only do checkout dives for the specialty they've signed up for, but they have to go diving, plan and execute dives on their own.

That might just make them a tiny bit more advanced that the guy who got the padi card, has about half as many dives and still hasn't executed a dive on their own.