Should an instructor or agency be able to decertify divers?

[TimAZ]

No. The focus should be on making sure new divers are good divers. The solution is to fix the problem not start yanking certs.

I think instead of yanking certs we should just make all crappy divers ride the slow cattle boats and reserve the fast 6 packs for all the good divers. Segregation!

Yeah, & reserve the good reefs too!!

Could there be a convenient means for dive operators to pass on their good reccomendation of certain divers to one another?

 

[SDAnderson]

I don't like the idea of an instructor being able to decertify a diver - the process would be too susceptible to the vagaries of politics and lucre. Then, again, I think all certifications should come with a freshness date and require periodic refreshing.

I had a guy walk into the shop not long ago who, by his own admission, hadn't been in the water in 12 years and was planning on a honeymoon trip to Mexico and wanted to do some diving. He had enough sense to know that the tanks and regulator he had left sitting in the garage for over a decade needed to be serviced but he became irate when I suggested that he might want to update his skills with a Scuba Review. His point? His certification was supposed to be good for life and he was willing to put that to the test. I don't know who his heirs might collect from, since the agency that certified him is defunct, but there you have it.

I haven't heard a peep from him since he picked up his gear and can only hope that his affianced didn't become a bride and a widow in the same week...

 

[shark_tamer]

1) The probleme here is that scuba diving is a sport for you and me. But for the agencies, it's a business .... more membres = more $$$$$

2) Let's compare scuba diving and driving ( ugly image )
- How many bad drivers do you encounter during you daily commute ?
- How many people get killed or injured in a year, in vehicule accidents ?
- How many is diving accidents ?

As the old saying goes : " There is one in every crowd " ... so no matter what, there will always be that one individual who sticks out like a sore thumb :shakehead

Some diver centers not only require you to show your C-card, they also ask you to present your log book: Not been diving for 2 years = not getting in the water with the group !!!!! That's an A+ in my book.

Last but not least, last september during a Caribbean dive, one diver in the group with 5 dives under his belt ( ... or that's what he told the DM ) does the " Inflate his BC at the end of the dive " trick when the DM told the group to start the ascend

When we got on the boat, the DM told the culprit that he would not be diving with this center anymore, thank you !!!! Tripple Kudos for the center

I'd say that it is up to you and me to make our sport safer ....​

 

[123Scuba.com]

Decertify? NO... I agree it's a slippery slope - But what about certifications that expire if go unused (or would that be undove?) Essentially, mandatory refreshers for inactivity...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Keeping current is a good thing. As I said, a boat, shop or resort owner can ask for anything they would like to ask for and if we can come to an agreement then we'll do business. But...I don't recognize a certification agencies authority to stick their nose in my business at any time for any reason. I paid for a class, I got the class and now our association and our business is complete. If I need anything from them, I'll let them know.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't like the idea of an instructor being able to decertify a diver - the process would be too susceptible to the vagaries of politics and lucre. Then, again, I think all certifications should come with a freshness date and require periodic refreshing.

I had a guy walk into the shop not long ago who, by his own admission, hadn't been in the water in 12 years and was planning on a honeymoon trip to Mexico and wanted to do some diving. He had enough sense to know that the tanks and regulator he had left sitting in the garage for over a decade needed to be serviced but he became irate when I suggested that he might want to update his skills with a Scuba Review. His point? His certification was supposed to be good for life and he was willing to put that to the test. I don't know who his heirs might collect from, since the agency that certified him is defunct, but there you have it.

I haven't heard a peep from him since he picked up his gear and can only hope that his affianced didn't become a bride and a widow in the same week...

You gave your professional opinion. You offered him a service. He declined. You did your job for both the client and the store. The rest is his business...maybe not his alone but certainly not yours or an agencies.

 

[String]

Had several people this summer that hadnt dived for 10-15 years.

Most were quite happy to do a refresher Of those, some were excellent, some were rusty.

A few however refused to do any sort of refresher and the majority of those i wouldnt have even liked on a DSD after seeing them in the water.

Unfortunately where i was had a no mandatory review policy if a gap between diving. I dont agree with de-certifying. Where do you draw the line? Decertify a rescue if they havent practiced in x years? Decertify a navigation speciality if not demo'd in 5 years? Only revoke open water? Its a slippery slope which if not careful could mean a rash of problems. If these people were professionals then fair enough, someone doing something for fun its a whole new story - they paid money for something and then you're telling them you're going to take it back off them and they need to pay again.

In short, i dont think an instructor should ever be allowed to decertify a diver and i dont think an agency should be allowed to either.

 

[deepblueme]

Wow
What a topic.

In my years as a dive guide I saw many divers I would liked to have jerked their cards but sad to say I couldn't,due to either bad bouyancy but mostly harassing the marine life (puff up puffer).
The divers I watched having bouyancy prob's most of them were the "I took a class a few years ago crowd"
I would take them aside and work with them on the next dive, the others well what can you do.
Then there is always that "How deep can I go here" Cowboy Diver, reguardless of the boats dive plans.

A few years back some of the cert agencys talked about expireing c-cards and the diving public had a fit "just another way for them to make money" was the cry. So it was dropped in favor of the refresher class.

It's not the training agencys or your Instructor that sets the standards for a level of training, that is/was set by the RSTC. www.wrstc.com
Back in the day the different agencys taught what they thought made good divers. That might have included pushups with your gear, ditch and don or even student diver harassment like shuting off your air for no reason.
Then they got together and formed the RSTC so a NAUI, SSI, PADI card and so on reflected the same level of skill training.
It is up to the training staff, Inst.& DM's to make sure that the student not only can do the skill but is also comfortable doing the said skill.
Then it becomes the divers responceability to decide when he is out of practice, and take a refresher.
But refreshers are just a way for the LDS to rake in more money I have been told.

 

[darylm74]

Why do so many folks want to control other people? Live your own life, let others live theirs.

Amen.....

 

[drrich2]

Having received my coveted open water certification April '06, and considering the varied opinions regarding just how 'good' you have to be to rate the privilege of certification, I suspect many newbie divers would be reluctant to enter situations where someone judgmental might observe them & pull their cert.s.

This could work against the personal advancement in skill that I hope we all hold out as a goal.

How you intend to get the C Card away from someone is another story. Could get interesting.

Does anyone have a set of mortality statistics showing that this issue is actually resulting in a lot of deaths? Say, compared to other potentially hazardous sports like rock climbing, parachuting, bungee jumping, etc...? Is this just speculative?

I agree that once certified, the responsibility for safe diving falls on the diver, not the rest of us to protect him from himself. Unlike drunk drivers, bad divers don't crash into other divers at 60+ mph! Contemporary U.S. society has gotten way too paternalistic.

Richard.