Shop loyalty to customers???

[MikeS]

The point is often made. “If I have to pay $10/fill someday instead of $5/fill, so be it.” This in itself is not a concern but what happens when the only way to get a tank fill is through the grey market? At least I know (thinkg) my LDS has liability insurance. What happens when the only way to get air is from the back of Bubba’s pick up truck?

Before I get in trouble let me clarify that this post is not meant as an insult to any individual with a pickup truck, the actual name “Bubba,” or the nickname “Bubba.”

 

[Bullfrog]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Bullfrog,
How much do you think the lds should have lowered his price?
If he was asking 289, what do you think he had in the item?

Any offer would have been better than none.
I'd call him and ask, but I doubt he'll tell me.

So, when I need to buy gear that's equivalently priced with that online, get fills, etc. I go to the people I find friendly and courteous, even if they charge a dollar more.

I'm sure he'll do allright with the new fashion line of BCs coming out this year. Even if my wings won't come in Yum-Yum Yellow.

Bullfrog

 

[MNScuba]

Originally posted by MikeS
The point is often made. “If I have to pay $10/fill someday instead of $5/fill, so be it.” This in itself is not a concern but what happens when the only way to get a tank fill is through the grey market? At least I know (thinkg) my LDS has liability insurance. What happens when the only way to get air is from the back of Bubba’s pick up truck?

#1, I would never get my air from the back of ANYONE'S truck.
#2, LDS's will always be around, so we don't have to worry about it.

 

[livestodive]

I am wondering if there is even enough gear sold online to affect the LDS's? Maybe one of the lds owners or their employees can enlighten us??

I am still of the mind though that the next move for the LDS's out there is to form some sort of co-op of independant owners. Being new to the sport I really can't voice an opinion of what it was like before the internet sales. But what i see now is that some ( not all ) LDS's are really feeling the internet pinch, and this causes problems between them and those people that they have to rely on for support.

The independants have to realize that these online suppliers have to be getting their products somewhere. I also don't see a problem for the manufacturer with online sales, it actually stops the warranty problems for them!

As someone once said divide and conquer. LDS's are divided by the distributors. Control of this division is done with dealerships. Approached by a united group of dealers from the eastern US would IMHO provide the distributors with a new insight. This would take some work for someone, but once started there are a lot of possibilites that could be realized.

I am here because I love this sport. I really can't do anything about the dealerships, or costs associated with them. However speaking for myself I would be supportive to the measures taken by the LDS's. I also believe that most divers would be supportive also.

Sorry I rambled, my pennys worth

 

[zodiacred]

As with any free market system ,The strong will survive. I mean to say that any LDS that balances low prices and competent service can and will survive.It sometimes takes alittle hunting to find a shop that still loves DIVING. here in RI we have a couple of good shops,and a few bad ones. Don't give up on LDS some good ones are out there.

 

[scubabunny]

Scubapro tried to sue/close down Leisurepro for selling unauthorized gear. They lost. Leisurepro (and most online US discount companies) do not get the gear directly from the manuafacturers. Usually, from what I understand, they either buy out a dive shop, or make a deal with a dealer to buy a MAJOR amount of gear at just above the dealer cost...Scubapro did find some of the shops that did that, and they are no longer SP dealers.

I agree that the manufacturers have to get more lenient! It is a pain in the butt! I work for a dive shop, and we do email sales...but, we check the dealer locater for each manufacturer to see if we are stepping on any dealer's toes/territory. But, we still get in trouble from time to time because the manufacturers are pricing themselves (and shops) out of business.

I really wish all LDS could get together and change this..but with the manufacturers the money is the bottom line....for now. Hopefully, they will learn, but it might be the hard way!

I'm curious...does anyone on here work for a manufacturer? Is so..does anyone have a comment?

 

[Windknot]

You hit the nail on the head.

I worked in "high end" sporting/specialty retail for a good 6 years. My store was part of a 'BUYERS GROUP' that had a small office/central administration that was the contact/ordering point for over 100 stores.

As individual stores, none of them had the capital nor the sales to order en masse and get a decent price from a lot of the manufacturers. But when they ordered as a united group, hell they had so MUCH buying power they were able to have thier lines made for them from certain manufacturers.

It kind of worked along the same lines as Scubabunny's LDS/Email Sales. There were Protected areas so that Joes shop that was three miles from Bob's shop werent both carrying the same lines. Pretty soon Bob's shop would get the idea and form or join another buyers group.

So yes, there are methods for cooperative buying, while still protecting individual markets.....key word is COOPERATIVE/COOPERATION.

LDS's have got to get out of their Seige mentality and start working together if they want to compete against the Internet. Question is WILL THEY?

Good posts people....

 

[sea nmf]

Scubabunny,

I can understand if they buy out a Dive store for pennies on the dollar. But, jeez, how many would they have to buy out to continue to supply merchandise to online buyers like they do?

The other method contradicts what some LDS owners have said in this forum. They claim that the online dealers can SELL the gear for LESS THAN their cost. If this is true, then even if the online dealers purchased gear at just above the dealer's cost, they would be losing money by selling it at a lower price than they purchased it for. You can't stay in business for long doing that.

The online dealers price versus LDS is so vast that if it were true that the online dealers are getting it for just above the authorized dealer's price, there should be some room to move on the price at the LDS. However, the LDS owners say that the manufacturer sets the selling price at the LDS. If this is true, then how could the LDS (authorized dealer) sell it just above their cost to the online dealer???

Somewhere, something smells fishy.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As A dealer I don't know the answers to some of these questions. In fact, I haven't been able to get answers from some of the manufacturers. Some manufacturers permit online sales. In these cases I think two things allow such low retail priceng. One is volume buying. In this case I would like to see the manufacturer set our prices so we can compete. The volume may not be there but to have a dive pro using and promoting their equipment should be worth somthing. With the manufacturers who do not permit online sales (the grey market stuff) Any dealor involved is simply violating their contract.

Lets face it. as a small shop with with a limited market, I can give a discount and even if it is more than the manufacturer allows, who will know or care. The problem is what I pay for the stuff. A big reduction in price will only mean a small increase in sales. The result is less revenue. Not the answer.

The other thing you should notice is some online stores may sell a reg for half what I do, then sell a light for twice what I do. The online equivilant of the blue light special. I've had people come into my shop and brag about the online prices the got. then look around only to see they got a good price on one high dollar item and got ripped off on everything else.

I know someone who purchased a reg online. After several dives the reg began to free-flow. I provided a quote for service. They are now looking for grey market service. They just want everything for free.

We love diving. We do not love retail. Some of the manufacturers will eventually get a big wake up call. Can some of the cutthroat manufacturers afford to have the pros totally reject their products? We are already narrowing what we retail and concentrating on training as a profit center. Most of what these companies sell is just designer junk anyway, I would rather not be forced to depend on selling junk to newbies who don't know the difference (which is precicely what some of these manufacturers make a living doing). I eventually hope to only sell Zeagle regs (nothing else I have found compares and Zeagle is a top notch company) and Halcyon BP/wings and teach real diving. Which eliminates the need for the designer junk.

 

[Windknot]

Great reply Mike.

I would buy from you in a heartbeat. The honesty which you expressed your views as a retailer without the negative attitude goes a long way in my book.

Obviously there is enough fault/culpabilty to go around, but you explained your point succinclty without yelling that its the other guys fault.

If you conduct your business the same way you write, I wouldnt worry about competition too much.

Thanks,

Windknot