Shop loyalty to customers???

[livestodive]

I did a lot of business with my LDS and was not too happy with how I was treated when I bought 1 item through another source.

I now have cancelled 2 classes that my buddy and I were supposed to take, and will not buy the dry suit nor the 4 hp steel tanks at this time.

I was a good and loyal customer who did not mind paying more as I wanted to support my LDS. The teatment I recieved makes me wonder how I will be treated when all my gear is purchased, and I only want to upgrade or replace worn gear.

I will be taking a reg repair course this year. Maybe the tank and dry suit money would be better spent on a compressor. You just never know when you might have to do it for yourself.

The customer isn't always right, but he is always the one spending the money!

 

[ScubyDoo]

This issue hits pretty close to home with me. I love my LDS, but thier prices are WAY to high. I took my OW class with them, and plan to take my advanced and specialty courses through them. I also plan to go on sponsored local lake dives with them, as well as sponsored trips to places like Cozumel, Bahamas, etc. I did buy my fins, boots, and regulator from them, as well as lots of small accessory items.

I purchased my Suunto Cobra computer online from DiveInn because it saved me almost $400 to do so. I took it in to my LDS to have them attach to my 1st stage. When I picked it up, the LDS owner inquired if I got a warranty with it, and I told him no. He indicated that he checked the serial number on it and tracked it back to DiveInn.......I was shocked!!! He gave me the bit about "If everyone bought online I would go out of business" routine, which I told him I fully understood. I just couldnt believe he went so far as to run the serial number to find out where I purchased it from, and then confront me with it! I was tempted to tell him to if he really wanted my business that bad he could start by lowering his prices and finish by not being a snoop!!

I will continue to use this dive shop, even though I feel as if Im on thier blacklist because I was thrifty and saved myself a wad of cash by buying "SOME" of my gear elsewhere!

 

[kwesler]

I had a similiar experience...I wanted (and now have) Scubapro regs. The shop I trained at and bought fins, mask etc. from do not carry Scubapro. I found I could save $800 (!!!) by buying from SimplyScuba.com due to the dollar/pound exchange rate, and their pricing, and the fact they deduct VAT from the price. (I bought 3 sets-me, wife and son). I also have bought other small gear online. However, ALL the shops I buy from online are "bricks and mortar" shops with a web presence. Anyway, at a local trip, a fellow diver asked me the price of my watch, which I told him. I was overheard by the dive shop divemaster. That night, I got a long "LDS depend on sales and where will you get air etc etc" email from the dive shop owner. He then told me I was welcomed to take classes but to keep my mouth shut about my gear. I wrote back that I answered a direct question honestly, and I would no longer be his customer in any way shape or form.

Bottom line: everyone competes on price, product and service. To survive, you have to be equal to the next guy on 2 out of 3 and better than the other guy on the final factor. There are very few true online shops-most are just another way for local shops to sell their merchandise. Those shops are smart and deserve to survive. The retailers who insist that attacking customers will not, and should not, survive.

 

[Windknot]

I took my BOW from my LDS. After certification, I bought $2,100 USD worth of stuff from them, THEN I bought an $1,800.00 custom fit drysuit, THEN I signed up for the AOW class at another $200.00.

I showed up for the first day of AOW (assuming that the texts were included) and got the "Where are your texts?" lecture from the instructor. During the first break, I went up front and commented to the owner....."Geeze...I've dropped $4,000 here in the last two months...you think that I could get a deal on my books?" His response: "NO" that's all...nothing else.


I worked in a high end specialty sports store for 5 years. The customer was ALWAYS first. Yeah, if you walked in once every two years, you weren't going to get much of a deal. But if you were a regular customer, bringing regular business and wer loyal to the shop, you could get a little knocked off here and there.

Loyalty HAS to work both ways. LDS owners CANNOT, SHOULD NOT, expect customer loyalty if they aren't willing to give a little themselves. I'm not talking about knocking 40% off every purchase. All i'm saying is, offer to throw in a token accessory or drop the "SALE PRICE" (Yeah right) another 15% "just for you" once in a while. Not every time. I recognize that the small shop customer cannot stay in business if they discount EVERYTHING that they send out the door.....but then again, they WONT stay in business if they dont make it inviting to return.


And guess what? I dropped $4,000 buying local. After my AOW, my loyalty is gone. I have convinced Fair Wife to jump in the pond....I LOVE buying her stuff. It just wont be there.

I'm off the soap box now....sorry...I had to rave just a little

 

[KC_Scubabunny]

The hubby and I have spent very close to $7,000 on scuba classes and gear since we took up the hobby in June 2000. I feel this is a large sum of money and we have been mostly pleased with everything we have bought.

We have ever shopped on the internet or through mass mechandisers. Have always patronized three LDS in our area.

All that said let me tell you a little about our experience. We did a discover scuba in Cancun in April 2000 and loved it. We knew immediately that we were hooked but did not have enough time left on that trip to get OW certified. As soon as we got back to Kansas City, my husband decided to research local dive shops for our OW certification. There are 6 dive shops in the greater KC area and he found a nice employee at one that was extremely helpful and really sold us on doing our OW certification and dives locally instead of getting a referral and going to blue water for our OW dives. The nice employee was a DM and not an instructor so we took his advice and signed up for the first 6 week class (every Sunday for 6 weeks) that was offered. We did our OW class in June and July 2000. The weekend before our OW dives, we went in and bought all the gear that we had found that we were happy with after testing out various regs and BCD's in the pool. We plunked down about $4,000 before our OW dives. All is going along great. Good instructor, good dive shop, all is well.

Over the winter our friendly little LDS was sold to another owner. We never really knew the first owner. We knew the nice employee who had helped us find a good instructor and let us try several different sets of gear and we made a big purchase as a result. New owner wanted to do things his own way so nice employee that we liked decided to move south and be a DM on a live-aboard. Good for him. We didn't think anything less of new owner and started coming to the shop for our tank fills and minor accessories. We already had all our big ticket items but we enjoyed the atmosphere at the shop and thought that it would be the same.

Well new owner if very sales vs. service oriented. He makes several snide comments to my husband and I about our lack of big ticket purchases since he became the owner. I start to feel a little bad and so when my husband mentioned he wanted a Citizen Hyper Aqualand watch I decided to order this from our LDS for his birthday. I call the shop and talk to the college kid who works there on the weekends and he says that they are not a Citizen dealer but he thinks they can still get it for me. I told him that would be great and asked him to get me a price. He comes back with $310 which was compariable to what I had seen in Divers Direct so I have him order.

I go to LDS over lunch one day to pick up the watch (Sept 2001)and the owner is the only one there. He makes sure to tell me while I am paying that I am getting the watch at his cost and that it isn't customary for him to even sell these watches since he isn't a Citizen dealer.

I think that was the last dollar I spent in his shop. My husband still goes there because he is now a DM and he enjoys teaching with our OW instructor who only teaches out of that shop. We still really like the college kid who works there on Saturdays and if we do have to buy anything from there try to do it then when the owner is not there.

I have decided that I am treating this LDS like I would any other merchant. Like a place to buy goods and services because he was not treating me like a valued customer who had done a considerable amount of business with that shop before he was the owner and would have continued to do so when gear needed to be replaced if he had just been interested in waiting until I needed more or replacement gear.

We have started spreading our purchases out over two other LDS' in order to build a relationship and see where we get the best service. I guess my bottom line comment is that loyalty can only go so far.

KC_Scubabunny

 

[Scottri]

LDS loyalty is a good topic. If a shop treats me well and with respect I repay that with my business. For me there are several shops in the area so I have a choice. I drive well out of my way to purchase gear from a few shops just because of the treatment I get from them. I hate going into a shop and hearing a salesperson bad mouth a brand, shop or agency rather than giving me a good reason why one product is better than another. I recently stopped going to one shop that I really liked because I was shopping for a dry suit and asked about different brands they carried versus some they didn't. Rather than explain the differences the salesman just said "Brand X sucks". No reason why. I left. I know that when I'm in the position to help someone with a gear purchase I try to find out what the need is, what products best suit that need, not bad mouth one product because I'm trying to sell another. One shop in my area really pushes gear sales to the point that I get uncomfortable. I bought most of my gear there and now when I go in they keep trying to hard sell me on more gear implying that what I have is now inferior. I avoid them like the plague now. I got to shops sometimes just to hang out and check out new toys without the intention of buying anything right away.


Scott

 

[scubabunny]

Peter, getting back to your original post, I think what your shop owner was saying is if you buy from an unauthorized dealer, the servicing is not covered under warranty. Most manufacutures cover the parts (appx $50.00) and that adds up every year. But buying from the internet means you do not get the warranty

After reading all the other posts, there is one thing I don't think people realize. Most US dive shops are dealers. And there are rules to being dealers...including MSRP. According to their contract, they can discount 10%...but if they consistantly go below that, they can lose their dealership. Which means, they won't be able to get ANY gear from that manufacturer. Which means they go out of business. Which means you have no where to get air fills, or share ideas with other divers.

I am a buyer for a dive shop. I know that LeasurePro sells gear right above the dealer price. And, there is no way most shops can meet that price because that is what they pay. I don't agree with shops that put down other manufacturers...that shows a lack of training. But, it has become a cut throat business because of the internet.

The local dive shop is going to become extinct if everyone expects them to price things as low as LP or any other online company.

just my 2 cents worth!

 

[ScubyDoo]

Originally posted by scubabunny
But, it has become a cut throat business because of the internet.

Isnt that true across the board in worldwide commerce? Phone companies had to adapt, the postal service has had to adapt. The internet has reshaped the way the entire world does business! IMHO dives shops need to adapt as well. They need to learn how to carve out thier piece of the pie like everyone else instead of begging consumers to ignore the internet. I agree internet purchases have warranty and service considerations, but if I save $400 by purchasing a Suunto Cobra from DiveInn instead of paying over $800 at my LDS.....how much is a warranty worth? If the first one fails, I could buy a brand new one and still come out even!

 

[kwesler]

I really think a lot of the issue is attitude, rather than price. While many times I can get a better price online, what has turned me off to the LDS is the "buy from us or you betray the dive industry" stance. Consider the iconic moments in retail: Macy's sending people to Gimbels to buy items they didn't carry-can you imagine your LDS doing THAT! Not in my area!

Car dealerships consider sales and service as seperate initiatives-they will eagerly service a vehicle bought at another dealer-they even advertise for it. They try to ATTRACT you with a good attitude, not condemn you if you go elsewhere.

IF my LDS has said "Look, I know I don't carry Scubapro regs, but please come to me for service, and give me a chance on the rest of your gear" not only would I have been thrilled to buy every other piece of gear from him, but I would have considered a different reg! I use an Oceanic Data Plus 2-he carries Aeris-both Pelagic systems. He wanted $500 for the same computer I paid $250 for-I would have done it to support him if he had a good attitude. Instead, I learned to pursue the best price, regardless of where it is.

Finally, we need to differentiate between online arms of bricks and mortar stores and other places line Leisure Pro. that low price Oceanic computer came with a full warranty-good thing too since they had to replace it!

 

[scubabunny]

ScubyDoo, I agree. I was just giving the average dive shops point of view. I do think there is no excuse for a shop that refused to service gear that wasn't bought at that shop. Or any shop that says one brand "sucks" and the only good gear is what they carry. That is one thing I really hate!

But, I guess the smaller diveshops are scared and very defensive.

I know the internet is here to stay, and I agree that diveshops have to deal with that as a reality. They do have to realize that they have to give much better service to customers in order to stay in business!