Sexism?

[Tracy]

And chip in for gas more readily.

This is true, women always offer gas money for the boat, my male friends, I have to shake them down. I need more women dive buddies.

 

[Dave616]

Reef Wrecker:



And does she make sure you are geared up & buddy checked because she is responsible for you?

Richard.

Of course not.

 

[drrich2]

Reef Wrecker:

You said these 3 things:

Have I ever witnessed sexism in diving? No.

I make sure my Wife is geared up and buddy checked because I am responsible for her.

But when asked "And does she make sure you are geared up & buddy checked because she is responsible for you?",

Of course not.

That does not compute.

Sounds like you witness sexism every time you dive with your wife. Unless there's some non-gender based reason for the starkly contrasting difference in perceived role responsibility.

This sort of thing is why a number of us were asking earlier about the definition of sexism. Some people seem to think Sexism = gender-based discriminatory practices by men that women involved or witnessing do not like.

Without regard for sexist attitudes & behavior by women towards other women, or towards men. And without regard for the issue that some women prefer, or appreciate, what might be termed 'positive' or helpful sexist behavior, which is what it sounds like you do.

It's like the civil rights issue of whether blacks can be racist, or just whites? Believe it or not, some people have tried to argue just whites, since they're perceived as 'being in power.' What about sexist views & practices by women?

Richard.

 

[Dave616]

She is responsible for herself. As dive buddies, you are responsible to each other, not for each other.

No, a husband is responsible for his wife. Just ask her dad. I get your saying, but that argument wouldn't help standing around a casket.

You sound like a friend of mine who's wife doesn't dive.

And yet here you are. Writing post #98.

Burning time on SB has nothing to do with an article in a magazine. Jill asked; I'm responding. Wouldn't it be sexist to not respond because a woman asked the question?

Has a man?

Yes. You don't help your buddies carry tanks & gear?

Yes, it is sexism.

I'm pretty sure you are a little sensitive on the topic. We can agree to disagree on some issues.
---------

I would say the biggest problem in diving today is obesity, bet nobody wants to talk about that.

 

[drrich2]

No, a husband is responsible for his wife. Just ask her dad. I get your saying, but that argument wouldn't help standing around a casket.

You sound like a friend of mine who's wife doesn't dive.

I'm not saying whether you're right or wrong. I'm pointing out the logical issue that what you're talking about is, indeed, sexist. People tend to assume sexist = offensive & wrong, so anything they think is acceptable and perhaps by their own belief system required must not be sexist. That's not true!

If the OP wants to write an article on sexism in the dive industry, for example, it might be fascinating to explore this issue:

1.) Do nearly all women really want to be treated just like men?

2.) Do many women expect helpful sexist practices?

3.) To what extent do women contribute to sexist practices?

Trying to be treated both 'as an equal' and 'like a lady' amounts to trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Some people can pull it off fairly well, but it's a fine line to walk sometimes.

Richard.

P.S.: Funny how your Mom doesn't expect her to be responsible for you.

 

[kr2y5]

A lot of subtle little things... like the fact that in the Suunto Eon Steel commercial, the man is setting up the woman's gear as she stands still and smiles in gratitude, making her look like a "trust me" diver... I am not a woman, and even I found it disturbing.

 

[Dave616]

Reef Wrecker:
That does not compute.

Sounds like you witness sexism every time you dive with your wife. Unless there's some non-gender based reason for the starkly contrasting difference in perceived role responsibility.

This sort of thing is why a number of us were asking earlier about the definition of sexism. Some people seem to think Sexism = gender-based discriminatory practices by men that women involved or witnessing do not like.

Without regard for sexist attitudes & behavior by women towards other women, or towards men. And without regard for the issue that some women prefer, or appreciate, what might be termed 'positive' or helpful sexist behavior, which is what it sounds like you do.

It's like the civil rights issue of whether blacks can be racist, or just whites? Believe it or not, some people have tried to argue just whites, since they're perceived as 'being in power.' What about sexist views & practices by women?

Richard.

Richard,

It does compute if you look at the definition. All you have to do is google the word 'sexism'.

Merriam-Webster: unfair treatment of people because of their sex; especially : unfair treatment of women.
: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

So as far as the current accepted definition goes, I still don't see any unfair treatment/discrimination against a woman in diving.

We all know that this thread should have been titled "Do male divers treat their female counterparts unfairly", or something similar reflecting what's really being asked here.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

 

[kr2y5]

Richard,

It does compute if you look at the definition. All you have to do is google the word 'sexism'.

Merriam-Webster: unfair treatment of people because of their sex; especially : unfair treatment of women.
: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

So as far as the current accepted definition goes, I still don't see any unfair treatment/discrimination against a woman in diving.

We all know that this thread should have been titled "Do male divers treat their female counterparts unfairly", or something similar reflecting what's really being asked here.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

What's sexist is not so much that you would be helping out your wife, but the fact that you would find it so obvious that you would be helping her, and equally obvious that she would not be the one helping you... as drrich described it, it's about perceived role responsibility.

 

[gcarter]

No, a husband is responsible for his wife. Just ask her dad. I get your saying, but that argument wouldn't help standing around a casket.

You sound like a friend of mine who's wife doesn't dive.


Burning time on SB has nothing to do with an article in a magazine. Jill asked; I'm responding. Wouldn't it be sexist to not respond because a woman asked the question?



Yes. You don't help your buddies carry tanks & gear?



I'm pretty sure you are a little sensitive on the topic. We can agree to disagree on some issues.
---------

I would say the biggest problem in diving today is obesity, bet nobody wants to talk about that.

I am not at all sensitive on the topic. I believe a lot of what is considered sexism is in the mind of the individual, and normal gender interactions are often misinterpreted. I think most people are too sensitive and looking for reasons to be offended.

But I do think that your post that I responded to was full of contradictions, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them.

It is also evident in your first statement above. What her Dad says doesn't matter. What does SHE say? Might be the same answer, but the fact that you chose to offer her father's wishes as justification indicates a frame of reference.

 

[Storker]

as drrich described it, it's about perceived role responsibility.

I think it's also doing her a disservice, even if she really is fine with the practice. I might misunderstand here, but the way I hear it, she's being trained to be dependent, and, frankly, I wouldn't have that in a diving buddy, no matter gender or age.

My wife doesn't dive, it's not for her. If she were, I'd treat her exactly the same way I treat my son, who I dive quite a lot with, or any of my clubmates, whether they're male or female: Helping each other out on an equal basis like buddies should do, while making allowances for physical differences and respecting the need the other person has to be able to tackle things without more help than necessary. Anything else would be an insult, IMO.

No, a husband is responsible for his wife. Just ask her dad.

Wow. If I asked my FIL about how to treat my wife instead of asking her, there'd be h€ll to pay. And rightly, too.

I get your saying, but that argument wouldn't help standing around a casket.

Are you saying that your wife isn't as competent a diver as you are and needs "help"? If so, why is that? Has it to do with her gender, her interests, her physical condition or just that she's "your wife" and thus not a competent adult?