Seeking the DIR Answer: Must DIR Shops be Committed?

[TheRedHead]

Overhead wreck diving should not be considered as a "Safer than" scenario when referencing new divers. These dives can be challenging even for advanced divers. Sounds like you are trying to justify something here. In my opinion, boats should not be taking new divers to these sites.

That's a different argument. It is the AOW card that buys access to deeper wrecks. Although, I haven't personally encountered any op that encourages wreck penetration without the proper training and equipment.

 

[Steve R]

I think I need a tissue.

People that want to learn DIR principles will find a way. It just ain't that hard.

People that want to whine about why they can't or won't, will do just that. That's even easier to do.

 

[JeffG]

I think I need a tissue.

People that want to learn DIR principles will find a way. It just ain't that hard.

No it isn't. But they do have to have an open mind though.

People that want to whine about why they can't or won't, will do just that. That's even easier to do.

Not only is it easier, it somehow makes them feel better too.

 

[RiverRat]

No it isn't. But they do have to have an open mind though.
Not only is it easier, it somehow makes them feel better too.

I agree with you guys. But even if I was Cave2 or Tech2, I still feel there's no excuse for BS attitudes, no matter what agency you're involved with.

 

[John_B]

RiverRat, I'm not buying it. You say as a single diver you wouldn't be able to find someone to dive with? What's the dive like, 50' in clear water or a wreck penetration? What is your attitude like (do you show up with a chip on your shoulder like you seem to have above)? I'd like you to put some names and places to your accusations.

Have you even been to a Fundies or Essentials class? Most people are there to learn, why would you assume they "shouldn't even be there, skill wise"? Where else are they going to learn those skills?

I think what's BS is people have read too many five or seven year old GI3 threads on the internet. The DIR types I've met aren't anything like that, far from it in fact.

John

 

[JeffG]

I agree with you guys. But even if I was Cave2 or Tech2, I still feel there's no excuse for BS attitudes, no matter what agency you're involved with.

First learn to be able to separate a system from people. They are not the same thing.

 

[Steve R]

I agree with you guys. But even if I was Cave2 or Tech2, I still feel there's no excuse for BS attitudes, no matter what agency you're involved with.

I've noticed that as well. It's too bad as it gives the rest of the DIR community a bad rap.
I asked, while learning some DIR stuff, that if I showed up at a place to dive, as a single diver, would I be able to hookup with some DIR divers to practice with. The answer I got was " ahhh you could.....but I doubt you'd find anyone there wiilling to dive with you".
What kind of crap is that? Do you have to take fundies before anyone will dive with you, so can you practice, so that you can be better prepared for fundies? I've heard half the divers in fundies shouldn't even be there, skill wise. I'm sorry I was just put off by that. Like all of a sudden, all of my diving experience and skills to date meant nothing. BS. I was also a bit put off by the video reviews. Every now and then a camera found it's way pointing to some rather large guts from another class in the pool. It seemed funny but then it got a little un-professional in my opinion. I realize DIR is a holistic system but let's not make fun of others to prove a point. All the while taking money from overweight divers. Coach them. Give them advise but act accordingly. It's this crap that hurts DIR.

Let me just say that I see enough contrast between these two posts that my D80 would have no trouble focusing.

I've seen enough window dressing by GUE-types to know they are human and err pretty badly too. I can't see tossing out the baby with the bath water though.

Why is it you think that GUE or DIR divers owe you or anyone else anything? Quite the contrary in my books actually.

 

[RiverRat]

RiverRat, I'm not buying it. You say as a single diver you wouldn't be able to find someone to dive with?

OK let's clear that up first. As a single diver, I mean I don't have a spouse that dives. I have plenty of dive buddies I go out with on a regular basis. Many different levels. What I meant was, if I showed up, would I be able to hookup with some DIR divers to dive with and practice. The answer I should have gotten should have been like "well it may be tough to hookup as the teams may already be formed or something like that" NOT "you could but you'd probably wouldn't find anyone that would WANT to dive with you". Sounds a little arrogant to me. I can bring anyone up there I want, but most likely they wouldn't be DIR and therefore I would not be able to achieve my objective, which would be DIR skill training and dives. [/QUOTE]

What's the dive like, 50' in clear water or a wreck penetration? What is your attitude like (do you show up with a chip on your shoulder like you seem to have above)? I'd like you to put some names and places to your accusations.

Most of my diving is a combo of cold Northeast shore dives, wrecks, quarries and warm tropical trips. I'm interested in wreck penetration although I keep it to the "easy" stuff, swimthroughs, whatever but would like to get more into that. Not there yet. I don't think I have a chip on my shoulder. Just observations. I'd rather not put out names, just a generalized observation. I don't think it's be fair at this point to flame anyone.

Have you even been to a Fundies or Essentials class? Most people are there to learn, why would you assume the "shouldn't even be there, skill wise"? Where else are they going to learn those skills?

To be fair, I've only taken a "dir intro" type course to prep for fundies. I learned a LOT of skills in addition to the skillset I specifically took the class for. From what I've understood, the reason for the class is that one would have a much better chance of passing fundies, not that "passing" is the goal. It was a great class. I look forward to the next class in prep. for fundies which I plan to take. I've seen many a post about divers taking fundies but having issues because they didn't have the skills down and it was hard to "stay in sync" if you will with the team. So with that I think the classes I'm taking should do me well.

I think what's BS is people have read too many five or seven year old GI3 threads on the internet. The DIR types I've met aren't anything like that, far from it in fact.
John

John I agree for the most part. Just a couple of comments and poor form that set me off a bit. I was there to learn and did just that. And got good help from many divers there. As I progress more maybe I'll find I just read into some things wrong or whatever.

 

[RiverRat]

Why is it you think that GUE or DIR divers owe you or anyone else anything? Quite the contrary in my books actually.

I don't think anyone owes me anything. But it seems to me if I were paying to learn something, and hopefully adopt a methodology, I might get a warmer responce. Why is the DIR community always on the defence when these types of questions are asked?

 

[Soggy]

Why is the DIR community always on the defence when these types of questions are asked?

Because much of the time, people are trying to find holes in the methodology so they can attack it and call us all lemmings.