Scubapro G2 v. Shearwater Perdix AI v. Suunto Eon Steel

[Wibble]

Also could you explain "lockouts"? thanks!

Have a hatred for Suunto since being "marketed" into buying a D9tx -- which admittedly isn't one of those mentioned. However, it's one that demonstrates some of the perverse decisions Suunto make which brick the thing as a dive computer, i.e. it's a useless lump on your wrist and simply says you should buy something that works, like a Shearwater.

• When you've chosen Gauge mode and jump in, you can't use Dive mode for 48h NOT IN THE WATER. How did I discover that when I arrived at my vacation with a shiny brand new Suunto and went swimming in the pool and set it to gauge mode, then found it reset, so 4 days of my holiday the bloody thing had to sit out whilst I borrowed a DC.
• It also does this when you "miss" a decompression stop, locks out Dive mode for 48h NOT IN THE WATER. At first glance this appears to be a good thing, but given how ridiculously conservative the Suunto proprietary algorithm is, if you've another computer (Perdix) which has cleared deco 5 minutes ago and the Suunto's still saying 5 more minutes... AKA "Suunto tax"

The Shearwater takes a far more pragmatic and adult approach. You've missed your decompression stop, it doesn't care. Will then decay the nitrogen loadings as per the algorithm, but allows the computer to be reused.

 

[BoltSnap]

Have a hatred for Suunto since being "marketed" into buying a D9tx

You are a "hater"

• When you've chosen Gauge mode and jump in, you can't use Dive mode for 48h NOT IN THE WATER. How did I discover that when I arrived at my vacation with a shiny brand new Suunto and went swimming in the pool and set it to gauge mode, then found it reset, so 4 days of my holiday the bloody thing had to sit out whilst I borrowed a DC.
• It also does this when you "miss" a decompression stop, locks out Dive mode for 48h NOT IN THE WATER. At first glance this appears to be a good thing, but given how ridiculously conservative the Suunto proprietary algorithm is, if you've another computer (Perdix) which has cleared deco 5 minutes ago and the Suunto's still saying 5 more minutes... AKA "Suunto tax"

I believe that most recreational dive computers will do this not just Suunto.

 

[Wibble]

You are a "hater"

Yep. I started out all innocent and coveted my Suunto. Then quickly grew to dislike it especially as I progressed through recreational to technical diving -- which they marketed that computer at. Many reasons for this growing dislike aside from the noise it made; the ridiculous button presses required to switch gasses -- and because of the crazy conservatism, a 100% oxygen switch has to be done at 5m. As I progressed in dive complexity, it really wasn't keeping up. It's when I bought the Perdix that I very quickly learned how generally useless the Suunto was as it was relegated to backup duties; even in the most "aggressive" settings it still exceeded the Perdix' deco calculations (using a moderate GF 50:80).

It's a toy against the Perdix.

I believe that most recreational dive computers will do this not just Suunto.

I genuinely find that shocking!

How many people do subsequent dives with the computer locked up? Imagine that on a week long liveaboard with multiple dives per day where you need to keep an ongoing eye on loadings.


I think that, like many technical divers, my needs aren't excessive. I just want kit that works reliably and doesn't have masses of irritations.

My ire is irked by Suunto marketing their toys to people who don't know what good looks like, such as me in the beginning, whilst purporting to be for "technical" divers. Fool me once...

 

[BoltSnap]

Yep. I started out all innocent and coveted my Suunto. Then quickly grew to dislike it especially as I progressed through recreational to technical diving -- which they marketed that computer at. Many reasons for this growing dislike aside from the noise it made; the ridiculous button presses required to switch gasses -- and because of the crazy conservatism, a 100% oxygen switch has to be done at 5m. As I progressed in dive complexity, it really wasn't keeping up. It's when I bought the Perdix that I very quickly learned how generally useless the Suunto was as it was relegated to backup duties; even in the most "aggressive" settings it still exceeded the Perdix' deco calculations (using a moderate GF 50:80).

My ire is irked by Suunto marketing their toys to people who don't know what good looks like, such as me in the beginning, whilst purporting to be for "technical" divers. Fool me once...

Suunto turned to be a pain in the budoncks for a very long time, or until recently, with their unrealistic conservatism and penalizing the diver even for looking at the computer the wrong way. However, they seem to have changed their attitude somewhat recently with the more advanced computers in their line (I think but not sure). What made it worse was a very high percentage of their computer fail due to faulty parts. I suffered a great deal because I had several Suunto dive computers I used personally and several in my dive schools training equipment fleet fail. They kept failing one by one and Suunto basically told me to f-off.

I genuinely find that shocking!

How many people do subsequent dives with the computer locked up? Imagine that on a week long liveaboard with multiple dives per day where you need to keep an ongoing eye on loadings.

I don't find it very shocking here when we are talking about recreational dive computers. What is bad is the lockout for 48 hours after using the gauge mode or free diving mode. That is very annoying but I am not an expert to make a judgement if this is technically needed or not.

One thing for sure is that I have moved away from Suunto few years ago and trying to get rid of any that I still have in my dive school's training equipment fleet.

 

[scubadada]

Suunto conservatism is frequently brought up. Their more recent algorithms can be quite liberal. I have never had a Suunto, but believe the topic should be discussed in a balanced manner

Looking for a nice Air Integrated, liberal decom(or able to change liberal/conservativeness) computer. Open to literally anything.

any big comparisons between perdix ai and teric? https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/teric-ai-vs-perdix-ai.573600/

scubaboard.com

 

[BoltSnap]

Suunto conservatism is frequently brought up. Their more recent algorithms can be quite liberal. I have never had a Suunto, but believe the topic should be discussed in a balanced manner

Looking for a nice Air Integrated, liberal decom(or able to change liberal/conservativeness) computer. Open to literally anything.

any big comparisons between perdix ai and teric? https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/teric-ai-vs-perdix-ai.573600/

scubaboard.com

The only person with extensive experience on Suunto newer algorithms on SB I know is @Diving Dubai. From what I recall, and I can be wrong, the newer algorithms have addressed some of the issues with conservatism but still have the lock feature. It is also my understanding these updates apply to the higher end computers not the entry and mid level ones. @Diving Dubai knows best.

 

[scubadada]

The only person with extensive experience on Suunto newer algorithms on SB I know is @Diving Dubai. From what I recall, and I can be wrong, the newer algorithms have addressed some of the issues with conservatism but still have the lock feature. It is also my understanding these updates apply to the higher end computers not the entry and mid level ones. @Diving Dubai knows best.

The table in my linked post was 1st clean dive, I was hoping that @Diving Dubai would comment on repetitive dives

The Fused RGBM 2 algorithm is on the D5, Eon Core, and Eon Steel Black. The Steel also runs Buhlmann with GF.

I am not a fan of the algorithm lock feature. That being said, in 24 years, >2,100 dives, I have not missed a deco stop and have never put any of my computers into violation gauge mode. Only 5% of my dives are light deco.

 

[lexvil]

I wouldn’t hesitate using a Suunto if I needed to, or a G2 (a nice computer and I’ve been very tempted by the HUD) the, or better, A reason for shearwater is cross compatibility or transmitters if you already have a PPS transmitter (talking rec divers) but reality is few people switch computers very often, a Suunto pod is compatible with several form factor computers within the brand, same with scubapro. The Garmin G2 is a tempting option now days but it’s a bit more limited in back up options.

where shearwater shines is service ant that revolves and turn around time and the quasi lifetime coverage. The turn around for the others being “shop” based can be very slow even when coved by warrant, if you end up against the wall with a big trip coming up soon SW will bend over backwards to keep you on schedule to the point of sending a loaner when possible, this just doesn’t happen with the big conglomerate companies, they still make very good products but are cumbersome in customer service.

buying cheap computers can be costly.

 

[rongoodman]

Suunto conservatism is frequently brought up. Their more recent algorithms can be quite liberal. I have never had a Suunto, but believe the topic should be discussed in a balanced manner

The issue isn't their conservatism(you can make Buhlmann GF as conservative as you like) but the fact that they're proprietary and unpublished. There's no way of knowing what they will do, or why. They've come up with half a dozen versions of "Suunto RGBM" over the years, without ever showing how any of them relate to the actual RGBM algorithm.

 

[scubadada]

The issue isn't their conservatism(you can make Buhlmann GF as conservative as you like) but the fact that they're proprietary and unpublished. There's no way of knowing what they will do, or why. They've come up with half a dozen versions of "Suunto RGBM" over the years, without ever showing how they relate to the actual RGBM algorithm.

The conservatism topic is the most frequently brought up.

I have never dived a Suunto computer but have extensively dived DSAT and now, Buhlmann.

I would also like to know how surface intervals, repetitive dives, multiday diving, reverse profiles... affect my NDLs. It appears that the reduction can be very significant

http://ns.suunto.com/pdf/Suunto_Dive_Fused_RGBM_brochure_EN.pdf?_ga=2.50675950.69891170.1646053732-1180698667.1645472440