Scubapro G2 v. Shearwater Perdix AI v. Suunto Eon Steel

[ScubaBadger32]

If that's all you've gotten out of these discussions you haven't really been paying attention. For many of us, proprietary algorithms and lock-outs are deal killers. The Scubapro and Suunto definitely fail on the first point, the Suunto on both. I can't figure out from the manual what the G2 does if you upset it. I didn't see anything there which would make it preferable to the Perdix though, certainly nothing that would compensate for these issues.

Update: The G2 will lock you out too. Section 1.6 discusses "SOS" mode.

Do you know if suunto or G2 have gradient factors (i think thats what makes them conservative or liberal, please correct me if i am wrong)

Also could you explain "lockouts"? thanks!

 

[rongoodman]

Neither run Buhlmann GF out of the box, although I think it is, or will be, available as an option for some of the Suuntos. The G2 has a tissue loading graph with 16 compartments, similar to Buhlmann, but it's impossible to say how they derive it. They both have proprietary adjustments for conservatism. "Lockouts" refer to the computer's behavior if you ignore its recommendations, usually regarding mandatory deco. Whereas Shearwaters and a few others will complain vigorously and display prominent warning messages, they will continue to work and recalculate the stops required to get you out of the water safely. Sunntos, G2s, and most recreational computers will simply stop functioning, or switch to gauge mode, for some period of time, usually 24 hours. My guess is that in the early days of dive computers the simplified deco models they had to run couldn't deal with these issues any other way and the feature was retained for liability reasons, but that's just speculation.

 

[BoltSnap]

Do you know if suunto or G2 have gradient factors

G2 doesn't have GF adjustment/control facility now. This feature, among other features, will be added to the computer in a new version later this year. Right now, the G2 has adjustments for added conservatism but not full GF adjustments. It will most likely have in the new version: "2 Dive Algorithms: Choose between Predictive Multi-Gas Bühlmann ZH-L16 ADT MB PMG or ZH-L16 GF"

For Suunto, they may have added GF to their top of the line computer but I am not sure at all.


The Scubapro HUD has full GF adjustment with full technical capabilities now out of the box.

"2 Dive Algorithms: Choose between Predictive Multi-Gas Bühlmann ZH-L16 ADT MB PMG or ZH-L16 GF"

 

[Curious_George]

All three computers you list are perfectly safe and all work with Subsurface which is a great, cloud based, dive logging solution. Pick one like your dive buddies use, or that you find the best price on, or that is easiest to read for the type of diving you plan to do and your eyesight.

Shearwater you listed is directed more at advanced/technical divers, the G2 and Suunto are geared more toward recreational diving although will still keep you safe with quite a lot of "tech type" situations and do offer multiple gasses and mid-dive switching.

I have used computers with a variety of button counts and found that less buttons is more fiddly and prefer three or four if done right. I also like screens with lots of color and easy to read graphs.

I never enjoy opening a watertight compartment on dive gear like the shearwater disposable battery, because it’s a chance to leak if I miss a hair or bit of fuzz on the seal. I prefer sealed rechargeables for this reason and it’s also less batteries in the landfill.

Always a laugh how quickly some will jump up to profess their favorite brand is best and sometimes not so subtly imply that a person is stupid to select anything else, all while never even sharing the type of diving they do, or plan to do in the next few years - this should be a big part of your decision too.

My preferences are based on zero interest in knowing how many tissue compartments I have or what happens if I’m blowing deco stops, or a rebreather, or tech/cave diving. Take this with a grain of salt if your interest is different. Full disclosure, I own both Shearwater and Eon Steel, not the G2.

 

[Edward3c]

For Suunto, they may have added GF to their top of the line computer but I am not sure at all.

Yes the EON range can be configured with GF, but why.

I dive an EON Steel Black and it does all the things I want it to do.

 

[scubadada]

The discussion of Buhlmann ZH-L16C with gradient factors vs. proprietary decompression algorithms has taken place many, many times on ScubaBoard. Several of the key points were reiterated in this thread.

What I find most interesting is that an increasing number of dive computer brands, known for their proprietary algorithms, are offering Buhlmann options. It is not difficult to guess why this trend is occurring.

Aqua Lung, known for the PZ+ algorithm, is offering Buhlmann presets on the i330R, with a maximum GF high of 90
Mares, known for Mares RGBM, has the Genius, running Buhlmann with custom GF, with a maximum GF high of 85, 90 with a code
Scubapro, known for Buhlmann ZH-L16 ADT MB offers Buhlmann with GF on the HUD and is said to be adding the G2
Seac now offers Buhlmann with presets to a GF high of 85
Suunto offers Buhlmann with custom GFs on the Eon Steel Black, others may be added

 

[Belzelbub]

Honestly, for recreational diving it's tough to get a computer that won't do a fine job. Some can do a better job than others, but pretty much they all work.

I've never used the ScubaPro or Suunto computers. They were removed from the list fairly early based primarily on the transmitter. Both ScubaPro and Suunto use a proprietary transmitter that will only work with their computers. They both also seem to have taken a different approach to pairing. Most often, when people complain about the AI signal not being reliable, it's almost always the Suunto transmitter they are talking about. I have also seen some complaints about ScubaPro transmitters as well recently. As I understand it, the ScubaPro transmitter will power down if it's not detecting a change in pressure after a period of time. Presumably, this is to save power, but it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

The Shearwater can use the same transmitter as Oceanic, Sherwood, Hollis, Aqualung, etc. I already had an Oceanic transmitter, so this helped soften some of the cost. Shearwater has recently introduced their own version, but it's backwards compatible. The transmitter powers on when it senses pressure, and powers off when pressure drops low enough. Battery lasts a good long time. I usually change annually, but that is probably overkill.

Another important factor I looked at is how long until obsolescence. Perdix, Perdix AI, Petrel, and Peregrine all share a common firmware. That usually lends well to future updates being around for a while. In fact, I think it's only recently that the Petrel 1 couldn't get the same updates as the hardware could no longer support it.

I've been very happy with my Perdix AI. It does way more than I'll likely ever need it to do. Unlike most dive computers, the manual is actually well written and easy to understand. The menu is very intuitive and easy to use. Shearwater also seems to listen to divers. For a while, one of the complaints was that the SW only supported two transmitters at a time. When they introduced their new transmitter, they increased that to 4 transmitters. The computer screen is configurable in certain areas. Portions are fixed in either rec or tec mode, but others are user defined.

Screen is bright and easy to read, but it also appears that the Suunto and Scubapro are as well.

I have not required service on my computer yet. Reports are that Shearwater service is very easy to work with. I've read several reports of users getting replacements rushed to them in time for a trip, and other users who had things fixed for free well outside of warranty. Customer service from Suunto is generally not held in very high regard.

 

[ScubaBadger32]

Honestly, for recreational diving it's tough to get a computer that won't do a fine job. Some can do a better job than others, but pretty much they all work.

I've never used the ScubaPro or Suunto computers. They were removed from the list fairly early based primarily on the transmitter. Both ScubaPro and Suunto use a proprietary transmitter that will only work with their computers. They both also seem to have taken a different approach to pairing. Most often, when people complain about the AI signal not being reliable, it's almost always the Suunto transmitter they are talking about. I have also seen some complaints about ScubaPro transmitters as well recently. As I understand it, the ScubaPro transmitter will power down if it's not detecting a change in pressure after a period of time. Presumably, this is to save power, but it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

The Shearwater can use the same transmitter as Oceanic, Sherwood, Hollis, Aqualung, etc. I already had an Oceanic transmitter, so this helped soften some of the cost. Shearwater has recently introduced their own version, but it's backwards compatible. The transmitter powers on when it senses pressure, and powers off when pressure drops low enough. Battery lasts a good long time. I usually change annually, but that is probably overkill.

Another important factor I looked at is how long until obsolescence. Perdix, Perdix AI, Petrel, and Peregrine all share a common firmware. That usually lends well to future updates being around for a while. In fact, I think it's only recently that the Petrel 1 couldn't get the same updates as the hardware could no longer support it.

I've been very happy with my Perdix AI. It does way more than I'll likely ever need it to do. Unlike most dive computers, the manual is actually well written and easy to understand. The menu is very intuitive and easy to use. Shearwater also seems to listen to divers. For a while, one of the complaints was that the SW only supported two transmitters at a time. When they introduced their new transmitter, they increased that to 4 transmitters. The computer screen is configurable in certain areas. Portions are fixed in either rec or tec mode, but others are user defined.

Screen is bright and easy to read, but it also appears that the Suunto and Scubapro are as well.

I have not required service on my computer yet. Reports are that Shearwater service is very easy to work with. I've read several reports of users getting replacements rushed to them in time for a trip, and other users who had things fixed for free well outside of warranty. Customer service from Suunto is generally not held in very high regard.

Woah! Thanks! This very well may help solidify my position on a Perdix AI, I’ve also seen how they hold value (not that I’m gonna sell it, Just that I can). And I like what you’ve said about the warranty and customer service, and repairs. That is a big draw for me. I promise I will post whatever computer I get when I buy it!

 

[scrane]

The discussion of Buhlmann ZH-L16C with gradient factors vs. proprietary decompression algorithms has taken place many, many times on ScubaBoard. Several of the key points were reiterated in this thread.

What I find most interesting is that an increasing number of dive computer brands, known for their proprietary algorithms, are offering Buhlmann options. It is not difficult to guess why this trend is occurring.

Aqua Lung, known for the PZ+ algorithm, is offering Buhlmann presets on the i330R, with a maximum GF high of 90
Mares, known for Mares RGBM, has the Genius, running Buhlmann with custom GF, with a maximum GF high of 85, 90 with a code
Scubapro, known for Buhlmann ZH-L16 ADT MB offers Buhlmann with GF on the HUD and is said to be adding the G2
Seac now offers Buhlmann with presets to a GF high of 85
Suunto offers Buhlmann with custom GFs on the Eon Steel Black, others may be added

After a brief (very brief) flirtation with an older Suunto and a few years with Oceanics DSAT I have settled on Buhlmann 16 because of its flexibility and its potential to offer lots of data and information and tools to the diver. In fact, I have not heard of anything it can't do!
If the industry gravitates to Buhlmann as a standard it's a good thing.

 

[Belzelbub]

Woah! Thanks! This very well may help solidify my position on a Perdix AI, I’ve also seen how they hold value (not that I’m gonna sell it, Just that I can). And I like what you’ve said about the warranty and customer service, and repairs. That is a big draw for me. I promise I will post whatever computer I get when I buy it!

Sounds good. Price is one thing that usually scares people away from the Shearwater, but the ScubaPro and Suunto models you mentioned are not exactly cheap.

Above it was posted that the Shearwater was geared more toward technical diving. This is true, but it doesn't mean that the Shearwater is not Rec friendly. I do exclusively recreational diving, and have my computer set up in Rec mode, which is primarily a display setting. With the introduction of the Peregrine, Shearwater also made some changes in the modes based on gas handling. If you only dive with a single tank, there's a one gas Nx mode which is really simple. I use this unless I'm bringing a pony with a different mix. In that case, I would want to have both my main and pony gasses available during the dive.

If I were to be buying a dive computer today, I'd make the same decision.