Scubapro G2 v. Shearwater Perdix AI v. Suunto Eon Steel

[scubadada]

...If the industry gravitates to Buhlmann as a standard it's a good thing.

Buhlmann has increased in popularity and use, probably, largely due to Shearwater computers. I think other dive computer manufacturers are offering Buhlmann to become or remain competitive in this niche.

 

[Pearlman]

The lockout is certainly a bad feature in the Sunnto. I wonder why the refusal to compute the next-best ascent profile is not seen as risk that increases the liability of Sunnto in legal terms rather than the opposite? Or does the bubble model have failure points that a bad ascent profile exposes?

I still got a brand new Sunnto eon core last week on the premise that I will very rarely do anything below 50m in the long term and that I would train to maintain and control depth on ascent/deco stops (went for the slim form factor and screen UI for the 60% diving I expect to be rec although one can argue that I should have considered the extreme case not the opposite). But as someone pointed out in another thread, extenuating circumstances could result in a modified ascent profile that ideally a user-friendly DC should assist till the end of dive.

PS: Does the Eon Steel with Buhlmann-16 upgrade cancel the lockout for both choices of algorithms or does the same Eon Steel retain lockout feature for FusedRGBM2 but not the Buhlmann-16? The first case will mean that it will still remain the social pariah… and that this lockout is not algo driven or dependent but driven by legal liability considerations.

 

[KenGordon]

The point of a lockout is to influence user behaviour so that stops get noticed respected. Given the spread of ability in the general diving population that is a positive.

I have never bent a Suunto by accident, it takes some trying.

 

[Pearlman]

The point of a lockout is to influence user behaviour so that stops get noticed respected. Given the spread of ability in the general diving population that is a positive.

I have never bent a Suunto by accident, it takes some trying.

I don’t quiet agree with that logic while it may be the justification Sunnto decided. When dealing with a hostile environment that can be a “life and death” situation, a positive mental model would be to assist all the way while leaving it to external agencies (training/instruction/course quality) to teach a diver to follow/obey the norms. The Sunnto approach (if what you say is actually true) is an authoritarian style mental model where “you do as I say otherwise I screw you!”.

 

[rongoodman]

In all honesty you can't blame Suunto for coming up with the idea, just for continuing to implement it. The existence of modern computers, since the days of the Liquivisons, have demonstrated that it's no longer something that's necessary, if it ever was.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don’t quiet agree with that logic while it may be the justification Sunnto decided. When dealing with a hostile environment that can be a “life and death” situation, a positive mental model would be to assist all the way while leaving it to external agencies (training/instruction/course quality) to teach a diver to follow/obey the norms. The Sunnto approach (if what you say is actually true) is an authoritarian style mental model where “you do as I say otherwise I screw you!”.

You don't have the whole picture or the correct understanding of the details. Suunto did NOT expose you to any danger, to the contrary, it was too protective and conservative; it certainly did not "screw you." The computer would get you up to the surface during the dive, it won't abandon you. If you miss a required deco stop, it will keep beeping and blinking at you the whole time with arrows pointing down. It will do everything possible to get you to go down to your stop except hitting you on the head or pushing you down. If you still ignore all of the warnings and alerts and proceed to the surface, the Suunto computer will not allow you to go down for another dive for 48 hours (I think) which is very prudent and conservative. It will work as a depth gauge timer if you go down again before the 48 hours are over.

Most dive computers in the recreational diving realm are the same more or less.

 

[Pearlman]

You don't have the whole picture or the correct understanding of the details. Suunto did NOT expose you to any danger, to the contrary, it was too protective and conservative; it certainly did not "screw you." The computer would get you up to the surface during the dive, it won't abandon you. If you miss a required deco stop, it will keep beeping and blinking at you the whole time with arrows pointing down. It will do everything possible to get you to go down to your stop except hitting you on the head or pushing you down. If you still ignore all of the warnings and alerts and proceed to the surface, the Suunto computer will not allow you to go down in another dive for 48 hours (I think) which is very prudent and conservative. It will work as a depth gauge timer if you go down again before the 48 hours are over.

Most dive computers in the recreational diving realm are the same more or less.

Agreed - I may have missed a crucial detail - “go down..”, but what if in theory I was dealing with a situation (inflator hose malfunction, currents) that made me miss that deco stop by more than 3 mins? What’s the next best thing to do? Will Sunnto recalculate for me?

 

[Belzelbub]

Agreed - I may have missed a crucial detail - “go down..”, but what if in theory I was dealing with a situation (inflator hose malfunction, currents) that made me miss that deco stop by more than 3 mins? What’s the next best thing to do? Will Sunnto recalculate for me?

I’m not 100% on the specifics, but once the threshold has passed with the violation, the computer locks out. I’m not a fan of the lockout that Suunto, and several other manufacturers use. They seem to be indicating that their customers are not capable of making good decisions.

 

[BoltSnap]

but what if in theory I was dealing with a situation (inflator hose malfunction, currents) that made me miss that deco stop by more than 3 mins? What’s the next best thing to do? Will Sunnto recalculate for me?

First, we are talking about recreational dive computers NOT technical diving computers. In recreational diving, there isn't supposed to be "required decompression" diving. According to the dive agencies I am familiar with, if you miss your decompression stop, you stay at the surface, breath O2, minimal exertion levels and watch for DCS sickness not go back to water.

What Suunto is doing is done by most other RECREATIONAL dive computers.

For technical diving, you need a different dive computer AND you will have extra air and different type of training and contingencies. You will have plan a, b, c, etc. so your scenario will be highly unlikely and if anything happens, it is your fault some how not the dive computer's.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @ScubaBadger32

We look forward to hearing about your decision. Your initial question was an interesting one, perhaps more interesting than you would have thought