Scuba Sciences Regulator Repair Problem

[justin957]

To me it looks odd to have a member's 1st post ever to be a long and detailed complaint about a specific dive shop. Could this be a phony post?

With the amount of business that this shop does there are going to be problems every now and then, it's how they are resolved that show their true integrity. I say, SS has done what I'd expect to rectify the situation.

For the record, I have never shopped at scuba sciences and am unbias.

 

[diversteve]

To me it looks odd to have a member's 1st post ever to be a long and detailed complaint about a specific dive shop. Could this be a phony post?

No, Scuba Sciences(Tina) verified that the reg was serviced by them. See this post. And that cjust had contacted them after the incident occurred. And there's a video.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Third, maybe I was doing something wrong, but neither me nor my buddy were able to 'crimp' the hose. And it certainly is not as easy as suggested to grab the house like you grab a hose normally. I tried for several seconds to reach it and it was moving too fast. Once my buddy got it, she tried to no avail to crimp it. I tried to both fold it over it and hold my thumb over the end. Air continued to escape at a rapid pace.

No, you weren't doing anything "wrong." Very few instructors teach hose crimping, and I doubt yours did.
But here's the procedure:
First, you have to get your hands on the hose - it's only flailing at the loose end; the other end is attached to the first stage and isn't moving, and that's where you grab it first, then move your hand along it until you have enough hose to work with.
Fold the hose back on itself and while holding the end of the hose against the hose with one hand, run your other hand down the doubled hose, like tightening a noose, until you have the doubled "end" in your hand. Squeeze tightly to crimp. It is not easy and you have to squeeze hard, but you can do it. I've had girls who had to use both hands when they got to the squeezing-to-crimp part, but they could do it.
The hose is stiff and it's got ~150 psi of air pressure in it (no way can you hold that back with a thumb) so crimping it is a forceful maneuver, and , as I mentioned, you don't want to practice on a good hose as it's bad for it. As I said, very few instructors teach it, and I don't know any that have students actually do it because of the damage it does to the hose - they'd have to have a dedicated "sacrificial" hose to do it with. I talk about it, but rarely have the opportunity to let folks do it "hands on."
Please don't think I'm criticizing you when I say you could have crimped the hose. You weren't trained to do it... You did what you were trained to do, that worked, and everybody's ok... and that's a good thing, a good bottom line.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

I am sorry about the debate that my post has caused.

Chris, Chris...
"You done reeel good, lad!"
You've brought a great thinking point to the table where lots of divers can see and discuss something they may never have thought about. You've probably influenced quite a few to be a bit more cautious about pre-dive checks and about good buddy skills. You've brought to light a probable problem in a major dive shop's repair procedures (whether they do anything with that information is still up in the air, but by golly, they can't say they don't know about it now )
Be proud, not sorry
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

Just a couple of things from the past few posts that may help everyone understand some of the issues. First of all, I wasn't discrediting the customer, I was simply responding to his statements.

I agree with everyone that it looks like he was unscrewing the hose. When there is a slight bubble leak, and the hose is unscrewed, it would cause the second stage to come off. In hindsight, it would have be better to abort the dive and return to the boat, rather than play with the regulator underwater.

During our Basic Ocean Courses, we teach our students to inspect every aspect of their scuba equipment before the dive. They look for any bulges in the lp hoses, look for bubbles seeping out of the hp hoses, vacuum test the second stages before turning on the air, listen for any gas leaks, etc.

We have excellent records and keep track of any problems or issues we may encounter. You claim that another customer of ours had a problem similar to yours in the past. We do not show a record of that and I'm sure that if there were any minor issues, it was a simple minor adjustment.

Regulators are very suseptible to damage during transport, being dragged up boat ladders, stepped on by people on the boats, etc. Regulators can get damaged and/or come out of adjustment between service periods. This is why we will readjust any regulator for our customers during that service period in those rare cases that it needs readjusting.

I had problems with a local Auto repair facility a few months ago. When I picked up my car, I had to sign a Repair Release when I picked up my car. I had some trouble with the car, called them that day and took the car back to them. Of course they fixed the problem. The fact is I gave them the opportunity to correct the situation.

Scuba Sciences services a lot of equipment in a year's time, with hardly any issues at all. We were and still are willing to completely overhaul this regulator at NO CHARGE and let Mr. Just use the pool and test his equipment. We are trying to correct this issue with Mr. Just, in fact, we offered this to Mr. Just back in early January, 2007 when we were first notified of this issue.

Y'all are still missing the point, Tina. Even rough handling shouldn't loosen a second stage to the point it works its way loose. This reg wasn't properly torqued. Your tech messed up. You let one slip through. Y'all need to make sure of proper torque in the future. How many "good ones" you've done, and cjust's "history" are red herrings. Use this incident to learn and to improve. Sitting there attempting to defend yourself with tangential issues is just making you look worse and worse with every unacceptable excuse.
Trust me on this one
Rick

 

[The Chairman]

I don't know guys...

I don't see Scuba Sciences as trying to villify the OP. It's always embarrassing when things go south for whatever reason. Many shops will run and hide, and put their head in the sand hoping, but these guys have come on offering a solution and continued support. It's natural to protect your good name, and I would expect that from ALL of you.

I vividly recall a regulator failure I experienced years ago, and the shop just charged me more money to put it right. THAT was poor service.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I don't see Scuba Sciences as trying to villify the OP.

I'm just gonna pull one (of several) examples.

6. According to our computer records, Mr. Just has been very inconsistent with having his equipment serviced annually as required to maintain the manuf warranties.

This statement is totally irrelevant to the problem, and has no other purpose than to cast doubt on the OP. It wouldn't matter if the reg were 25 years old and had never been serviced - the second stage shouldn't work loose after service. The finger-pointing at the OP is a classic ad-hominem fallacy that has nothing to do with the issue, and everything to do with detracting from it. There are more.

... these guys have come on offering a solution ...

What they're offering is compensation, not a solution. Unless I've missed it, they have yet to say "we blew it, and we're taking steps to make sure it never happens again." Instead what I see is "everybody has problems from time to time and so this is just something our customers have to expect every now and then. But don't worry, when it happens we'll give you a freebie to make up for it." Gee... that makes me all warm & fuzzy and confident in equipment they service.

It's natural to protect your good name, and I would expect that from ALL of you.

Yep, that's natural. But to shift the discussion from the problem to the customer isn't a valid defense - it's a cheap fallacious tactic that just looks bad.
Rick

 

[redacted]

I don't know guys...

I don't see Scuba Sciences as trying to villify the OP. It's always embarrassing when things go south for whatever reason. Many shops will run and hide, and put their head in the sand hoping, but these guys have come on offering a solution and continued support. It's natural to protect your good name, and I would expect that from ALL of you.

I vividly recall a regulator failure I experienced years ago, and the shop just charged me more money to put it right. THAT was poor service.

I agree that SSI is trying. But they just have not made the necessary step of admitting they screwed one up in a big way and will take (insert plan here) to insure this incedent does not reoccur. As far as making it right with the OP, let me suggest a somewhat extreme but reasonable proposal: Free reg service for the OP for as long as he owns that reg and a class on pre-dive regulator inspection.

The shop is leaning in the right direction but will have to take some serious steps to regain the trust of the OP and surely other customers who are put off by this incident.

 

[cerich]

What gets me is the constant effort to shift blame, "it worked when it left" etc.
They know and we know that the loose hose would most likely not have shown up during a check at the shop by the custumer, they know and we know that it was likely a mistake by the tech( didn't tighten the hose after adjusting the second stage oriface, seen it before and I'm sure I will see it again) made worse when the diver examined the leak underwater.

In the same situation I would refund the money, offer a free repair, explain what most likely happened (we didn't tighten the hose after adjustment), offer a free service next year or a equipment specialty class for free, and generally suck up to the cust. Then I would sit down and do a quick incident report that detailed all of it and send off to my insurance company, after all if aything legal were to happen they would be the ones paying. They would dislike that you admitted it most likely was the shops fault but so what? The insurance covers mistakes. It is not my job to work on my insurance agencies behalf. Then call a staff meeting and go over the importance of having all servioce work done 200% correct.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Chris, Chris...
"You done reeel good, lad!"
You've brought a great thinking point to the table where lots of divers can see and discuss something they may never have thought about. You've probably influenced quite a few to be a bit more cautious about pre-dive checks and about good buddy skills. You've brought to light a probable problem in a major dive shop's repair procedures (whether they do anything with that information is still up in the air, but by golly, they can't say they don't know about it now )
Be proud, not sorry
Rick

Exactly! Until this post, I never thought about the possibility of the 2nd stage falling off the hose. And I never thought about checking the connection before the dive. Of course, I wrench tighten my connections when I service my regs.