Scuba diving dream for MD patient on a ventilator

[Fitzy]

Giday Mattie,

All i have to say is "good luck Mate" and i hope you acheive your dream. By all the advice you have being getting from this site it certanily sounds like you came to the right place to ask your question.
"NEVER EVER GIVE UP"

 

[Matt the Aquaman]

Hi all,

I just wanted to send out a group email and thank everyone that has been reading my post and sending me feedback. I really appreciate all the encouraging words. Some of the ideas are very interesting. I enjoy talking to all of you scuba divers, you are my kind of people! I have been busy talking/emailing to people around the country to get this going. I am grateful for all the communication. On DUI's web site I was the DOG of the week. It makes me feel really good. Thanks to everybody again. Have a great weekend. Sincerely, Matt the Wonder Boy. (I got that nickname from another diving buddy I know) :bang:

Click here to greet a new member! :happywave
No experience needed and it feels great!​

 

[goodknight411]

Ok, this may be a totally stupid idea that won't work, but is there some way that a regulator could be rigged to "purge" every so often? Just a crazy thought, don't know if physically, technologically this would work.
Also, Wonder Boy, wow!!

 

[Bruce1961]

I don't know of a vent around that will be capable of delivering the pressures needed to give you a breath at depth. They're designed to work within a comparatively narrow range around normal atmospheric pressure and thier maximum is way, way under what a SCUBA delivers. If the vent is sealed in a water/airtight suit of it's own it won't know what pressure it's at anyway. The same problems would be presented as a person trying to breathe from a garden hose on the surface (different recent thread I'm thinking of). The air intake for the ventilator will have to be fed from somewhere as well.

Running a long line down from a ventilator at the surface will present problems. Low compliance tubing (as ventilator tubing by nature is) will be crushed by water pressure at even meagre depths. Even on the surface with too long a length of tubing most, quite possibly all, of the flow from the vent will go in to inflating the tubing rather than your lungs.

Would you be able to hold a regulator/snorkle style mouthpiece in your mouth? Is your trach tube fenestrated? Would you be able to get your breaths through your mouth rather than the trach tube, and have the trach tube capped?
What sort of peak pressures do you normally ventilate at?

I think there's a way to do it, but I'm pretty certain that the submersible ventilator isn't it.

Brian, I am also a RRT, in Minnesota and have been in contact with Matt via e mail. I have thought of these same things, and I'm not a diver!!! so great minds must work alike

I suggested to Matt that he try a pneumatic resuscitator used on some paramedic rigs. The device will connect directly to his saline filled cuffed trach tube.He will have a "buddy diver" help him (inflate to a comfortable IPAP monitored with a pressure guage), have it connected to a regular scube tank, go down to a shallow, colorful, lagoon or pool.

Any paramedics out there? Will this work?

Please keep in mind that this is all from a guy stuck in the middle of the continent that thinks there are only two things in the ocean; Sharks and shark bait. I know nothing about diving, but everything about home mechanical ventilators and tracheostomy tubes.

Good Luck.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for the link, Matt. Dick Long is a hell of a fellow, isn't he. I saw where he wants to get you in a dry suit and in the water soon. If anyone can, he can.

But you have lots of other good people here working on this, too. I'm still thinking myself, even with my lack of talents for the challenge.

Stay in touch!!!

 

[Drewpy]

I have nothing to add-but I admire you a great deal! I hope that you are able to fullfill this dream! It looks like you have some great people trying to make it happen!
Best of luck to you my friend! Ill keep my fingers crossed !

 

[Brian1968]

Ok, this may be a totally stupid idea that won't work, but is there some way that a regulator could be rigged to "purge" every so often? Just a crazy thought, don't know if physically, technologically this would work.
Also, Wonder Boy, wow!!

Not a totally stupid idea at all. In fact not far off the mark of what Matt needs. I don't know if a reg's second stage could generate enough pressure to give him a reasonable breath. Assuming it could, and assuming that it could be adapted to his trach tube, there would need to be a way to monitor how much air he was getting. There needs to be some means of either directly measuring his volume or the pressure it's taking to give him a breath.

I suggested to Matt that he try a pneumatic resuscitator used on some paramedic rigs. The device will connect directly to his saline filled cuffed trach tube.He will have a "buddy diver" help him (inflate to a comfortable IPAP monitored with a pressure guage), have it connected to a regular scube tank, go down to a shallow, colorful, lagoon or pool

I'm thinking much up those same lines. But using a bagger with Support DIver #1 alongside doing the bagging. I'm wondering about the feasibility of adapting the inlet of a bagger to the second stage of a scuba regulator. In theory the reg should fill the bagger with gas at ambient pressure and keep the bagger from collapsing. Between the bagger and the exhalation valve and Matt would be two or three feet of corrugated aerosol tubing. This would help keep Support Diver #1 at a safe but not crowding distance. With a manometer in the system Matt would essentially be pressure ventilated. But ..... can the whole deal be kept absolutely watertight?

Can a vent in a drysuit get enough fresh gas flow to function? Can *it* be kept watertight? That trach tube is right in the neighborhood of the neck seal. Its possible that either might interfere with the other (ie the trach cause a leak in the seal....flooded suit, or the neck seal dislodge the connector or, worse, decannulate him altogether)

That's my 2 psi to this point.

 

[DandyDon]

Hello Don,

I appreciate you taking the time to write. Anything you can do to point me in the right direction would be most appreciated. It's been a dream of mine for a long time now...only time isn't on my side anymore. But the one thing that's been in big plus in my life is meeting so many wonderful people who are involved in Scuba diving in one regard or another. Again, thanks for your response and I look forward to hearing from you again...

Respectfully,
-Matt-

{I added the empahsis...}

When I read this, I wondered - if we were talking about a dying kid's wish, what risks would I take to help him with the dream? Maybe Duct Tape the Reg to his mouth, and push it everytime I took a breath. Even that wouldn't work, and I'd need a hell of a lawyer when we finish - dead or alive. I'm sure the tabloids would love it.

With Dick Long on your side, I see the thermal protection idea being attacked, as you would chill very fast without the dry suit & thermals - not being able to burn calories in your muscles. And I'll bet he knows engineers who can handle the venilator. I'll try to call him next week, as I won't be seeing him until November.

If this doesn't happen, there are some cool Sub rides, even one in the Caymans that goes down 1,000 feet. Gawd, but I want to do that one!! But maybe Dick and your new friends here can put this together after all. Wonder if he's thought about getting Disney World involved? I've heard that their aquarium is super diving, and they could recoup some contributions with the publicity. I'll ask him.

Anyone else have ideas...?

 

[Brian1968]

Hi again, Matt.

Here's one of the things I'm seeing:

There are a few portable ventilators out there designed to work at hyperbaric pressures. They're hard to find but they are there. I think the best bet in this case would be pneumatically controlled one. Requires no electricity but runs off of a gas sourse; it's all mechanical.

I see an umbilical running from the source gas thru a sealed umbilical inlet in an oversized drysuit in which also is you, Matt. The vent can be held in something of a backpack. Inside the suit the source gas would be running directly to the vent...therefore no freeflowing breathing gas in the suit. From the vent, tubing to the trach via a one-way valve and wye connector. The trach connection can easily be made to be low profile to minimize interference with the neck seal and probably elimitate it altogether. The expiratory limb would run back to the umbilical inlet in the suit where another one-valve would vent expired gas to the water. This valve would be set to 5 or slightly higher cmH2O- your PEEP level currently.

A modified regulator would be needed to source the ventilator with the necessary pressure, usually in the neighborhood of 50 psi.

 

[minnesota01r6]

Matt, I was just wondering how the quest was comming along. I live in woodbury too, and I am hoping and praying that everyone can figure out a way to get you underwater. I have absolutely no technical expertise that would help you, so I'll just stick on the sidelines and cheer you on! Please let us know how everything is going.

John