Scuba diver death in Rochester NY

[Steve R]

So if he had come up with his buddy he would be alive?Yet you do NOT know the cause of death.Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .Just lets go out on a limb here and say he had a massive heart attack as he was surfacing with his buddy,he would still be alive?

Regardless of what happened or how it turned out, his chances of being alive would have been better had he ascended with his buddy. There's simply no denying that much. When you are unable to help yourself for whatever reason, and you're alone,.........you really are gonna die. A buddy might make the difference.

Make sure you know your buddy and his equipment as well as you know your own

That's why having the same gear set-up is always the best policy, unless you're prone to forgetting your own set-up . <not that it had anything to do with this particular incident>

 

[z3r0c00l]

I am not so certain that I will ever accept that I might just die due to dumb luck. I have yet to see a death here that I could not have prevented in one or several ways, most of the time they are very simple ways: (don't panic, bring extra air, don't go into that 150 ft ice cold dark water known to cause severe paranoid narcosis, free flows, etc)

The only reason that some deaths go unexplained is because the Eye Witness is dead. And unexplained does not = impossible to prevent. We live in a universe of cause and effect - unless you think there is a scuba god that just shoots us with embolisms every now and then to keep things interesting.

Why again do I have to do that to get to 1000 dives? Does it save money? Honestly I think I will miss more dive time, and lose more money, if I die.

 

[Web Monkey]

You are totally wrong about "all preventable." It is a dangerous sport that can kill, which we try to manage safely, but caca happens.

On the air quality thing, PADI does require quarterly tests, but there is no enforcement.

Air quality problems are completely preventable while diving at home, by selecting a fill-station that has excellent testing and QC procedures and a record of never handing out bad air. When diving in less regulated areas of the world, you have less information to go on, but can still choose an operator with a good track record.

That said, the DAN stats place Bad Air squarely at the bottom of the risk pool.

Medical problems cause a bunch of deaths, but are not SCUBA related. Anybody who would have a heart-attack or stroke while diving would have one anyway, somewhere else if they weren't diving. A person can have a heart-attack while diving, but I don't consider it to be a "SCUBA Death" any more than it would be a "Television Death" if it happened while watching Gilligan's Island reruns.

The rest are preventable (or at least have a greatly improved chance of a favorable outcome) by getting good training, learning and practicing emergency skills and having and staying with a good buddy.

This isn't just my opinion. It's in the death statistics. If you exclude medical events, you'll need to look long and hard to come up with anything that could not have been prevented.

You would be hard pressed to come up with a situation where training, practice, a good buddy and good judgment could not prevent a SCUBA death. In almost every case, the deceased did something dumb. For some reason, our culture tends to want to "not speak ill of the dead" however, I would suspect that if the dead could speak, they would be lined up here warning everybody to not do what they did.


Terry

 

[DandyDon]

Uh, how many ocean dive do you have now, Z3? I do want to respect your experienced views fully...

...unless you think there is a scuba god that just shoots us with embolisms every now and then to keep things interesting.

It's called caca happens! You are right to train, prepare, prevent all the way, and it will keep you safer as well as set good examples to others. It is not necessary to judge others wrong to do so, and some of these really are bad luck, random chance, karma, whatever. You do realize that surviving family members also read these discussions....??

Why again do I have to do that to get to 1000 dives? Does it save money? Honestly I think I will miss more dive time, and lose more money, if I die.

Huh? Neva mind...

 

[Web Monkey]

Uh, how many ocean dive do you have now, Z3? I do want to respect your experienced views fully...

It's called caca happens! You are right to train, prepare, prevent all the way, and it will keep you safer as well as set good examples to others. It is not necessary to judge others wrong to do so, and some of these really are bad luck, random chance, karma, whatever. You do realize that surviving family members also read these discussions....??

Caca does happen. However it's not new and unique each time. Whatever happens to you has most likely already happened to someone else, and most likely already has it's own DAN category. There just really aren't that many unique ways to die underwater.

By learning what happened to the last poor b******, and preparing for it, you reduce your chances of it happening to you.

In fact, if I die while diving and it was because of something I did and shouldn't have, or shouldn't have and did, I want everybody here to call me a dumb***, explain exactly what I did wrong and tell every diver they know "Don't be like that guy".

Terry

 

[eriediver2002]

I am not so certain that I will ever accept that I might just die due to dumb luck. I have yet to see a death here that I could not have prevented in one or several ways, most of the time they are very simple ways: (don't panic, bring extra air, don't go into that 150 ft ice cold dark water known to cause severe paranoid narcosis, free flows, etc)

The only reason that some deaths go unexplained is because the Eye Witness is dead. And unexplained does not = impossible to prevent. We live in a universe of cause and effect - unless you think there is a scuba god that just shoots us with embolisms every now and then to keep things interesting.

Why again do I have to do that to get to 1000 dives? Does it save money? Honestly I think I will miss more dive time, and lose more money, if I die.

Is this God? I think he's the only one that can prevent ALL deaths.

Unless you plan your death ahead of time, we are all going to die from dumb luck. Doesn't matter whether we're underwater or in bed.

 

[z3r0c00l]

Is this God? I think he's the only one that can prevent ALL deaths

Boy remind me not to dive with, or rent gear from the caca happens or we are all going to die from dumb luck eventually crowd. That is a creepy mindset.

Anyway I think William Wallace said: "All men die, but not all men have to die underwater when they are 35."

 

[ageddiver]

You're heading in the right direction, Don. Only the complete novice can be so cocky as to think an accident can't happen to them because they always have all the angles covered. That other guy/gal was simply careless or didn't follow the rules or didn't account for everything.

These divers quickly leave the sport the first time they experience an "oh ****" moment.

 

[Web Monkey]

You're heading in the right direction, Don. Only the complete novice can be so cocky as to think an accident can't happen to them because they always have all the angles covered. That other guy/gal was simply careless or didn't follow the rules or didn't account for everything.

These divers quickly leave the sport the first time they experience an "oh ****" moment.

Nobody is saying that all risk factors are preventable. What I was saying (along with a number of others) is that preventable risk factors are by definition, preventable. And in fact, my "oh ****!" moments were what got me to realize this.

Don't want to die alone on the bottom? Stay with a qualified buddy. Don't want to run out of air? Learn to plan your gas and stick to your plan. Don't want to die in an overhead? Stay out unless you're trained and equipped.

If you read the "Accidents and Incidents" section, almost every single thread, aside from medical events and the odd missing boat, starts out with something that is specifically covered in OW, or possibly Stress & Rescue.

The deceased guy this thread is about died alone. The only possible way this can happen is buddy separation or solo diving, both of which are specifically warned against in OW.

Terry

 

[Steve R]

The deceased guy this thread is about died alone. The only possible way this can happen is buddy separation or solo diving, both of which are specifically warned against in OW.

Terry

Unfortunately some agencies teach solo diving.......making the buddy team look less attractive thereby stuffing their students behind the 8-ball already.

One could argue that an OW, AOW and Stress and Rescue, by the book, teaches all of the things you mention and be right when they say it, on the surface anyway.

Unfortunately the reality is this stuff is hardly ever enforced nor taught like it should be on course, so when they're off on their own with all the bad habits they've never had trained out of them............well, that's what we have the Accident and Incidents threads being posted as often as we do with very basic and simple solutions to most of the problems. Boils down to a whole lot of ignorance. A common thing really.