Error Diver drowned after accidentally falling in lake with gear on
- Thread starter also_anon_dc
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This Thread Prefix is for incidents caused by the diver, buddy, crew, or anyone else in the "chain".
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BTW, how many people use the sweep?
This is mostly a problem gearing up since with my prescription (either glasses or mask) I have zero peripheral vision, but when I need a reg I reach back with my right hand and circle one or both hoses coming out of the right side of my first stage and bring my hand forward.
This is mostly a problem gearing up since with my prescription (either glasses or mask) I have zero peripheral vision, but when I need a reg I reach back with my right hand and circle one or both hoses coming out of the right side of my first stage and bring my hand forward.
very odd that he didn't reach button to inflate bcd. Or start kicking to stay on top. Must think we was overweight.
I suppose the question would be whether a wildly inaccurate story would be inappropriate for the Accidents & Incidents forum, as it would be more like a hypothetical scenario than an actual event.
Fair. Get the conversation moved and start requiring receipts for all posts to this forum.
johndiver999
Contributor
It is kinda funny that people are talking about reg sweeps and back up regulators in this scenario. Someone who is comfortable in the water, when presented with this situation, should NOT try to secure a working regulator. The proper response is to press the up button and try to roll over enough to snatch some air at the surface.
If that initial response does not work; say for example, the tank is off, then the victim instantly knows that his tank is off and securing a regulator or pressing buttons is not going to save him. Then their response is swim (assuming the fins are not in their hand) or to drop lead or ditch the rig.
If they are confident, they can reach back and try to turn a valve and then also try to secure a second stage, but that really can be a challenge with no mask, no fins, and an impending panic setting in.
Several years ago I went diving in this super shallow spring in FLorida., The park rangers made people buddy up, so I paired up with this guy who looked kinda like a clown and was not experienced. We put our gear on, I think we might have checked it a little and then walked a good way down a boardwalk to the water.
It was miserably hot, so I was impatient about getting into the cool, clear water. It was like 8 feet deep or something and sand bottom near the entrance. I am hot and tired and enter the water and I didn't put my fins on. I wear more lead than needed and sunk to the bottom and then immediately the buddy did the same. I was going to put my fins on while sitting on the bottom.
It was at that exact moment... that I realized ---We had screwed up, he was floundering around with no fins sinking and he had forgot to turn on his tank. I had to perform a bit of a rescue, so I grabbed him from the waist, held him above my head and walked on the bottom and supported his head above water and pushed him the 10 feet laterally to the stairs. He recovered quickly.
The funny thing was, I had done the exact same thing! I sunk to the bottom with the tank completely off and no ability to inflate or breathe! I was caught between the feeling of embarrassment and a bit of panic, but I knew I could hold my breath for 45 seconds and get him to the steps and me to the shore. It went from the most relaxed benign situation to an impending disaster in 2 seconds!
Complacency strikes again! Press the up button first, at least you will quickly know how bad of a problem you have.
If that initial response does not work; say for example, the tank is off, then the victim instantly knows that his tank is off and securing a regulator or pressing buttons is not going to save him. Then their response is swim (assuming the fins are not in their hand) or to drop lead or ditch the rig.
If they are confident, they can reach back and try to turn a valve and then also try to secure a second stage, but that really can be a challenge with no mask, no fins, and an impending panic setting in.
Several years ago I went diving in this super shallow spring in FLorida., The park rangers made people buddy up, so I paired up with this guy who looked kinda like a clown and was not experienced. We put our gear on, I think we might have checked it a little and then walked a good way down a boardwalk to the water.
It was miserably hot, so I was impatient about getting into the cool, clear water. It was like 8 feet deep or something and sand bottom near the entrance. I am hot and tired and enter the water and I didn't put my fins on. I wear more lead than needed and sunk to the bottom and then immediately the buddy did the same. I was going to put my fins on while sitting on the bottom.
It was at that exact moment... that I realized ---We had screwed up, he was floundering around with no fins sinking and he had forgot to turn on his tank. I had to perform a bit of a rescue, so I grabbed him from the waist, held him above my head and walked on the bottom and supported his head above water and pushed him the 10 feet laterally to the stairs. He recovered quickly.
The funny thing was, I had done the exact same thing! I sunk to the bottom with the tank completely off and no ability to inflate or breathe! I was caught between the feeling of embarrassment and a bit of panic, but I knew I could hold my breath for 45 seconds and get him to the steps and me to the shore. It went from the most relaxed benign situation to an impending disaster in 2 seconds!
Complacency strikes again! Press the up button first, at least you will quickly know how bad of a problem you have.
Great story of your experience. I agree complacency strikes again!!!!
I dont even put on my BCD until the tank is on, both secondary’s purged(to test) and both secondary’s get a big breath taken from them. Then my buddy checks out my rig and then it goes on. Obviously I also test the power inflator too.
FishWatcher747
Contributor
This is why I disagree with the acronym taught by the agency I certified with. BWRAF(BCD, Weights, Releases, Air, Final). Air should be number one. On a boat my acronym is Aw Freak BWRAF as the first 2 things are turn air on and put your fins on (for back deck roll which is the only kind of boat I find myself on).
@johndiver999 nailed it on the regulator sweep issue. It just isn't applicable in this scenario. The victim went over the edge of a 5 m dropoff. If a sweep (or what have you) is going to work anywhere, it should work in 5 m.
A friend of mine used to say opinions are like a certain bodily orifice: Everyone's got one and they all stink. With that in mind, here's my take and what I tell OW students:
1. Inflate your BCD before your toes touch water on a beach entry. You fall over, you float.
2 I'll let you be ankle deep to rinse the spit/defog out of your mask, but any deeper the mask is on the face so you can at least see if you trip. I'm not a stickler for this, but I encourage them not to take the mask off their face until their feet are firmly on dry land again.
3. Snorkel should be in the mouth. If you fall over face up, you can spit out the snorkel and inhale the air your face is in. Fall over face down, use the snorkel. A reg is unnecessary IF YOUR BCD IS INFLATED.
4. Do not try to put on fins until you're in mid-torso depth of water. Same for fin removal, don't go shallow to do it. (Keeping in mind we're not doing surf entries, where things could be a bit different.) People futzing with fins in shallow water (or worse, sitting down in the shallows to put them on or take them off) get rolled by waves or ship wakes where we dive.
Earlier somebody mentioned that a reg on a necklace implies primary donate. Not necessarily: A DM I work with a lot has her primary on a necklace, so it never goes anywhere. She does secondary donate. To be honest, I'm not sure why this isn't routine practice other than it's another expense for the LDS.
A different person mentioned PADI being fine with primary or secondary donate. On the one hand, that's true generally. They do not prescribe a particular method of sharing air. On the other hand, post-COVID I'm not so sure they'd approve of a reg going from one diver's mouth to another diver's mouth without a sanitizer step between. (They changed a lot of things during COVID, and I just don't know if they returned this one to "normal" or not since early in the pandemic. Not a tech instructor, so I don't know what they do for tech classes.)
I can see where our tech diver in doubles might have had more trouble getting his kit off, especially with a Hogarthian rig and thus no quick releases at the shoulder. *IF* he was wearing doubles and a Hogarthian rig.....
Last, a person commented that they dove without weights and were head just below the surface, snorkel above, with a full tank. This doesn't make sense to me. If the head is fully submerged, that implies the diver is negatively buoyant (in that moment anyway). They shouldn't be able to hold that depth without kicking. If you're hovering with just the tip of the snorkel above water with a full tank, how do maintain a safety stop with an empty tank? You can compensate with lungs for a bit, but losing 60 or 70 cubic feet of air from a tank is more than my lung volume can compensate. Call me confused on this. Maybe they didn't mean the whole head below the surface, but just the bits necessary for breathing?
A friend of mine used to say opinions are like a certain bodily orifice: Everyone's got one and they all stink. With that in mind, here's my take and what I tell OW students:
1. Inflate your BCD before your toes touch water on a beach entry. You fall over, you float.
2 I'll let you be ankle deep to rinse the spit/defog out of your mask, but any deeper the mask is on the face so you can at least see if you trip. I'm not a stickler for this, but I encourage them not to take the mask off their face until their feet are firmly on dry land again.
3. Snorkel should be in the mouth. If you fall over face up, you can spit out the snorkel and inhale the air your face is in. Fall over face down, use the snorkel. A reg is unnecessary IF YOUR BCD IS INFLATED.
4. Do not try to put on fins until you're in mid-torso depth of water. Same for fin removal, don't go shallow to do it. (Keeping in mind we're not doing surf entries, where things could be a bit different.) People futzing with fins in shallow water (or worse, sitting down in the shallows to put them on or take them off) get rolled by waves or ship wakes where we dive.
Earlier somebody mentioned that a reg on a necklace implies primary donate. Not necessarily: A DM I work with a lot has her primary on a necklace, so it never goes anywhere. She does secondary donate. To be honest, I'm not sure why this isn't routine practice other than it's another expense for the LDS.
A different person mentioned PADI being fine with primary or secondary donate. On the one hand, that's true generally. They do not prescribe a particular method of sharing air. On the other hand, post-COVID I'm not so sure they'd approve of a reg going from one diver's mouth to another diver's mouth without a sanitizer step between. (They changed a lot of things during COVID, and I just don't know if they returned this one to "normal" or not since early in the pandemic. Not a tech instructor, so I don't know what they do for tech classes.)
I can see where our tech diver in doubles might have had more trouble getting his kit off, especially with a Hogarthian rig and thus no quick releases at the shoulder. *IF* he was wearing doubles and a Hogarthian rig.....
Last, a person commented that they dove without weights and were head just below the surface, snorkel above, with a full tank. This doesn't make sense to me. If the head is fully submerged, that implies the diver is negatively buoyant (in that moment anyway). They shouldn't be able to hold that depth without kicking. If you're hovering with just the tip of the snorkel above water with a full tank, how do maintain a safety stop with an empty tank? You can compensate with lungs for a bit, but losing 60 or 70 cubic feet of air from a tank is more than my lung volume can compensate. Call me confused on this. Maybe they didn't mean the whole head below the surface, but just the bits necessary for breathing?
Tests breaths while watching gauges. Inflate BCD. Reg in mouth. Before ever getting close to the water.
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