Scuba deaths/incidents per certifying agency

[ccardvol]

Nobody is saying that the question is invalid. The thing of it is, and please do not take this the wrong way, is that I think what you are truly after and the way you are phrasing the question are not really the same.

At any rate, it seems that your experience was much like what I and many other divers have come across. The type of training I personally received was quite a bit less than what I felt I required to be a "proficient" diver. I did not feel like I knew what I didn't know and I did not feel like I knew how become better with all of the relevant skills.

If you look at the course description of advanced open water classes, regardless of agency, the question becomes, are they teaching you what you need to know so that you can execute dives in as safe a manner as possible? The syllabuses for the AOW classes in my area allowed me to pick 4 specialties (dry suit, underwater navigation, boat diving, night diving, etc.). I could not figure for the life of me how these classes were gonna make me a better diver.

I would say that if you go down the advanced open water route in search of training that will bring your skills and knowledge to the next level, the best thing to do is to focus on the instructor rather than the agency. Ask them questions such as:
- do you teach skills kneeling on the bottom or in mid-water (the place a diver is most likely to need to deploy the skill)?
- how do you teach gas planning? (if they say "be back on the boat with 500psi", run away screaming)
- how do you teach weight checks? (if they do not have you check if you are properly weighted both with a full tank and with an almost empty tank, run away screaming)

Good instructors from PADI will give you good answers. Just like good instructors from NAUI and SSI. Bad instructors from any will essentially teach you underwater basket weaving, at best.

Another direction you should investigate is GUE's Fundamentals class. There are many class reports posted in the DIR forum that talks about that class. And in my opinion, it is the best class any new diver can take (it will open your eyes).

Awesome answer. Thank you very much. That's a great start.

 

[ccardvol]

As I stated before the instructor is the one that makes a difference in how and how much you are taught agencies are agencies most major agencies have similiar teaching materials. That is why most accept other agency cards. For example I have my OW through SSI but I have my Nitrox through PADI and I am taking my AOW through PADI. Because that is what agency my LDS uses.

Ok, I understand that now. Now it makes sense. I'm dense. And I'm ryhming.

 

[rawls]

Well, the question I wanted an answer to was the question I asked. But since it seems like an impossible answer for you "expert" divers and the majority of answers aren't answers at all, so, how about this, if you don't know the answer to my question or have valid information to give me comparing PADI/SSI/NAUI and their respective training and safety statistics, then just shut up.

I have read back over the posts up through your comment and I cannot see where there was anything said that initiated your reasons for making, what I read as, such a disrespectful statement. It looks to me as if everyone tried to answer your question. If there was any dissent it looked as if none of it was disrespectful toward you. Shots do get fired on SB and sometime you have to wear armor Heck, there have been times I have had my armor shot off of me, then I run, then I get shot in the a*ss You will learn alot on this board. You will laugh, be helped, be saddened, be excited...and yes...sometime you will get shot at. But I simply didn't see any shooting in this thread. Welcome to SB. We all want you here...just toughen up a little and don't take it seriously...Truly...Welcome...

 

[Brewone0to]

Hi everyone, I'm Randy and new to diving. I was certified OW by a very popular agency, and before I continue my training, I was wondering if there was information available about the incident rate per certifying agency. I'm mostly interested in the PADI/SSI/NAUI comparison.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

ccardvol

I don't believe that I have come in contact with the info you seek.
But, If I had to take a stab at it.
I would say that PADI is more than likely the clear winner.
This is based on the fact that this agency has a major share of certifications, especially for those divers not truly interested in diving,
but wanting to become "vacation divers" and the such.

Besides that, When ever I see a diver do something completely stupid.
And I ask who certified them, the popular answer seems to be PADI.

Although this isn't meant to pigeon hole
ALL PADI divers as being a bunch of sorry strokes.

Some of the finest divers I've dove with to date carry this card.
Rather it is aimed toward the ones that are the idiots that
feel it necessary to piddle and play with Darwin's theories.

You know the ones that seem hell-bent on winning some award no matter what it represents, yes I'm talking about the Darwin Awards that are judiciously given out to the few that strive to be the winners of such awards.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Back on topic to your Advanced Open Water cert question...

Here's a link to a video of my students doing their buoyancy skills. This is their second time in doubles. The diver in the twin aluminum 80's is 16 yrs old. The rebreather divers are cave dive instructors that I dive with alot. I'm the one wearing the sidemount rig (tanks at my sides)

These divers still have a long way to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDUuZMn0cMM

If you want an advanced class, let me know.
You won't be in doubles, but you will learn to dive well...

Cheers.

Mike

PS: It's not the agency, it's the instructor. don't sweat the SCUBA alphabet soup.

 

[ccardvol]

Back on topic to your Advanced Open Water cert question...

Here's a link to a video of my students doing their buoyancy skills. This is their second time in doubles. The diver in the twin aluminum 80's is 16 yrs old. The rebreather divers are cave dive instructors that I dive with alot. I'm the one wearing the sidemount rig (tanks at my sides)

These divers still have a long way to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDUuZMn0cMM

If you want an advanced class, let me know.
You won't be in doubles, but you will learn to dive well...

Cheers.

Mike

PS: It's not the agency, it's the instructor. don't sweat the SCUBA alphabet soup.

Great video Mike...I'm interested, for sure.

 

[Walter]

As I stated before the instructor is the one that makes a difference in how and how much you are taught agencies are agencies most major agencies have similiar teaching materials.

Nope. You are mistaken. Agencies have vastly different standards although with the AOW class the standards are closer than with most others. There isn't an AOW class (as defined by agency standards) I would recommend. PADI and YMCA only require 5 dives for AOW, NAUI only requires 6, SSI doesn't actually have an advanced class, although they do issue a certification. All of them are essentially useless. So what does a diver do to improve their knowledge and diving ability? They must take a true advanced class.

The options (in order of value) for such a class are:

1. If you are in southern California, take LA County's Advanced Diver Program. This class takes (I believe) 10 weeks and gives you lots of academics and experience. It's by far the best advanced class available.

2. Take YMCA's Silver Advanced class. This class has twice the number of dives of the AOW option and it has real academics relating to advanced diving topics.

3. Take the AOW class from an instructor who adds academics and dives to that required by their agency. PADI does not allow instructors to add requirements. NAUI encourages them to do so.

 

[ccardvol]

Nope. You are mistaken. Agencies have vastly different standards although with the AOW class the standards are closer than with most others. There isn't an AOW class (as defined by agency standards) I would recommend. PADI and YMCA only require 5 dives for AOW, NAUI only requires 6, SSI doesn't actually have an advanced class, although they do issue a certification. All of them are essentially useless. So what does a diver do to improve their knowledge and diving ability? They must take a true advanced class.

The options (in order of value) for such a class are:

1. If you are in southern California, take LA County's Advanced Diver Program. This class takes (I believe) 10 weeks and gives you lots of academics and experience. It's by far the best advanced class available.

2. Take YMCA's Silver Advanced class. This class has twice the number of dives of the AOW option and it has real academics relating to advanced diving topics.

3. Take the AOW class from an instructor who adds academics and dives to that required by their agency. PADI does not allow instructors to add requirements. NAUI encourages them to do so.

Great info. Thanks!

 

[ccardvol]

I don't believe that I have come in contact with the info you seek.
But, If I had to take a stab at it.
I would say that PADI is more than likely the clear winner.
This is based on the fact that this agency has a major share of certifications, especially for those divers not truly interested in diving,
but wanting to become "vacation divers" and the such.

Besides that, When ever I see a diver do something completely stupid.
And I ask who certified them, the popular answer seems to be PADI.

Although this isn't meant to pigeon hole
ALL PADI divers as being a bunch of sorry strokes.

Some of the finest divers I've dove with to date carry this card.
Rather it is aimed toward the ones that are the idiots that
feel it necessary to piddle and play with Darwin's theories.

You know the ones that seem hell-bent on winning some award no matter what it represents, yes I'm talking about the Darwin Awards that are judiciously given out to the few that strive to be the winners of such awards.

Yeah I'm starting to understand that. Thanks for helping

 

[Rick Murchison]

AOW is a joke from any agency. Since you don't live in southern CA, I'd suggest YMCA's Silver Advanced course. It's a solid advanced class. Don't let the instructor talk you into the AOW class. YMCA's AOW is as much of a joke as the others.

I assume you include the YMCA AOW in your "joke from any agency."
Sometimes, Walter, your brush is just too broad.
Now, while I will certainly agree that the typical AOW course just covers things that ought to be covered (and used to be covered) in the OW course, I wouldn't classify the minimum 24 logged dives required by SSI as a "joke," regardless of what you think of the individual specialties (there are four required) the AOW candidate may select.
Rick