SB (extended) weekend

[fgray1]

Line protocol is this.
A primary secure tie off OUTSIDE the entrance (P1 gold line does not go past the entrance into the open water) Although it can be seen. Second tie At or just inside the entrance. (this is where the P1 gold line is currently at.) Then tie to the gold line. So this being the case, the primary tie off is missing.
The rerason for the tie off outside the entrance is WHY. Because if the one at the entrance comes loose we have a direct line out still. So what if while you in there the last gold line tie off get cut or becomes loose you lose your continuous line to the exit. Lets say you silt it out you find the gold line but it's just free floating, What then. I guess you start a lost exit drill??? No matter how you slice it. You are missing the primary tie out side the cave in open water. In order to make P1 correct that no line in is needed ,they would have to continue the line well out into the open water. They didn't to try an avoid any chance that open water divers will see it and be tempted.
Wendy just so you know there are several good tie off spots just to the left onf the entrance if your facing it. If you had to you could use the stairs as well being sure to keep the line well out of the way.
I got to believe when you took the course your instuctor explained all this to you. I mean why the open water tie off is there.
Fred

 

[Wendy]

Wendy just so you know there are several good tie off spots just to the left onf the entrance if your facing it. If you had to you could use the stairs as well being sure to keep the line well out of the way.
I got to believe when you took the course your instuctor explained all this to you. I mean why the open water tie off is there.
Fred

Yes of course I know all of this, my point here is that this thread was more of you not agreeing with how onebrightgator was doing something, but you were not offering up any suggestions on where you thought he should of tied off to. That is what I was asking, so those that didn't know would get an idea of what it was like, etc.

I know how to cave dive thank you very much! And I've been trained to remove the bodies of those that do not!

 

[fgray1]

Yes of course I know all of this, my point here is that this thread was more of you not agreeing with how onebrightgator was doing something, but you were not offering up any suggestions on where you thought he should of tied off to. That is what I was asking, so those that didn't know would get an idea of what it was like, etc.

I know how to cave dive thank you very much! And I've been trained to remove the bodies of those that do not!

My point was As a certified cave/cavern diver they should know this. You do and I do.
They are advacating forgoing the rules or making exceptions to the rules on an open forum the new divers will read. Maybe they will get the idea that it's ok to make other exceptions as well. Like the man in Crystal river did. I could say alot more about this. And Wendy I know your a good diver. But so am I.
I think we've beaten this hourse to death.
Still like you guys and hope that some day we get to dive together.
Fred

 

[H2Andy]

ok... fgray, we "broke" the rule as you say. fine.

so what? the purpose of the rule is to get us out of the overhead to open water
in case of an emergency.

guess what? there is no way in hades that someone can't get from the gold line to
the open water at Peacock I. is that clear? no way in hades. unless, of course,
you are blind and missing two arms, in which case you should not be cave diving in the
first place.

so did we break the rule? you bet. does it matter? no way.


i repeat:

no matter how convoluted a scenario you come up with, there is no way in hades
that at Peacok I a team can't finish those LAST THREE FEET from the gold line
to the overhead.

ok? THREE FEET. at Peacock I. on the day we dove it.

let's see if this sinks in

 

[Robinhood]

I apologise for bringing up the question of if this was typical practice, in my novice question i unwittingly let the flood gate go on a torrent of other cave diving questioning! However i do feel that Fred, the main inquisition instigator, may have already given up on this thread with his "whatever" post, as not getting you to say you were wrong (when it sounds like you werent by description).

As for college, you are both wrong, get a real education without all that sporting affiliation hype!

Actually, both schools have some good programs. I know UF has a great medical program.

 

[Robinhood]

:bigun2:

Hey Jax is only a short drive away from me AND I'm a Marine and know how to use that gun your displaying...do you????? :11:

 

[Robinhood]

We still have something in common... we both got into FSU...

Ben

Actually, I didn't want anything to do with UF so I didn't apply. I've got my own reasons for coming to FSU, trust me! Other than the fact, that I've been a Seminole fan since before you were born!
Besides, I'm just on a 5 yr detour(done with 2 of them) then I go back to my normal job in the Marines! And the Marine Corps could care less if I was a Gator or a Seminole as long as I do well with my academics and get my degree from an accredited university.

 

[fgray1]

ok... fgray, we "broke" the rule as you say. fine.

so what? the purpose of the rule is to get us out of the overhead to open water
in case of an emergency.

guess what? there is no way in hades that someone can't get from the gold line to
the open water at Peacock I. is that clear? no way in hades. unless, of course,
you are blind and missing two arms, in which case you should not be cave diving in the
first place.

so did we break the rule? you bet. does it matter? no way.


i repeat:

no matter how convoluted a scenario you come up with, there is no way in hades
that at Peacok I a team can't finish those LAST THREE FEET from the gold line
to the overhead.

ok? THREE FEET. at Peacock I. on the day we dove it.

let's see if this sinks in

It's ok if we all break all the rules then. The only apsolute is death. They are there for a reason. What I want to know is who told you no need in running a line and the next time you dive will you listen if your dive buddy says No need in placing an arrow because I know the way out. It's only a 3 ft jumb we can do it. No need for a gap line placement. No need for that saftey stop I stiil have a few more minutes before I'm in deco.
Where do we draw the line? I know your new to cavern and if you haven't had a nice silt out yet you are in for a treat. If you start with bad habits they are like weeds the grow without you even noticing until it's to late. I prefer not to let them grow.

you said "at
Peacok I a team can't finish those LAST THREE FEET from the gold line" I said the same thing about Crystal River, "how did anyone ever get trapped in there"


Fred

 

[H2Andy]

Hey Jax is only a short drive away from me AND I'm a Marine and know how to use that gun your displaying...do you????? :11:

er... never fired an M60 in my life, can't say as i have

BUT

i am deadly with a slingshot

 

[H2Andy]

It's ok if we all break all the rules then.

don't ever let the rulebook do your thinking for you. your most important piece of equipment is between your ears.

rules are a substitute for experience. you break them at your own risk. following the rules does not guarantee safety any more than not following guarantees a disaster. do you follow this?

The only apsolute is death.

agreed.


They are there for a reason.

agreed, see above.


What I want to know is who told you no need in running a line

i did. it's hard to run a reel when your head is in the overhead and your knees are in open water and you can reach and grab
the goldline.


and the next time you dive will you listen if your dive buddy says No need in placing an arrow because I know the way out.

whoa... that's a big leap there. do you seriously consider this
sceneario similar to not running a line three feet away from
open water so broad you can drive three trucks through it?

i repeat: there is no scenario that holds with reality in which
we could not see the open water zone from three feet away
(i.e. the end of the goldline).

It's only a 3 ft jumb we can do it. No need for a gap line placement. No need for that saftey stop I stiil have a few more minutes before I'm in deco.

again, these are nowhere near not running a line (i'll say it
again) THREE FEET in broad daylight zone.


Where do we draw the line?

i don't know, but i can tell you this: i could see open water THREE FEET AWAY.

I know your new to cavern and if you haven't had a nice silt out yet you are in for a treat.

i have, and it wasn't pleasant. however, due to current speed,
it wasn't as bad as i hear they can get.

If you start with bad habits they are like weeds the grow without you even noticing until it's to late. I prefer not to let them grow.

following the rules blindly is also a bad habit.

you said "at Peacok I a team can't finish those LAST THREE FEET from the gold line" I said the same thing about Crystal River, "how did anyone ever get trapped in there"

the difference is i made it back. i was so confident that i could see BROAD DAYLIGHT FROM THREE FEEET AWAY that i was willing to bet my life on it. and i did.

and guess what? i came out.

and i know what you're going to say, but let me remind you that there is no guarantee that next time you go into a cave you will come out alive (god forbid and may you live until you are 109),
even if you do everything by the book

there are no guarantees and the best course of action
lies not in following the rules 100% but in good training,
good equipment, and experienced common sense.

i have zero experience in the cave zone, but when it comes
to the cavern zone, i can confidently say that my training,
my equipment, and my experienced common sense
led me to conclude that i did not need a line out into
open water from three feet away. and i stand by that