Ron Lee's Personal Rules for Diving in Cozumel

[dumpsterDiver]

They aren't?

What's the whole industry that revolves around pepper spray that fits in a women's purse all about?

Why is there male vs male boxing and female vs female boxing but no male vs female boxing in the Olympics?

Get over it people, there is a difference between the sexes, if you want to pretend there isn't it doesn't make you chivalrous, it just makes you a liar.

..says the guy who is sleeping on the couch for the next week.....

 

[ggunn]

Gotta interject a little reality in this fantasy fest. Air use between men and women has everything to do with one is a man and one is woman and has nothing to do with diving skills. The underlying reason is lung capacity and the difference between the male and female bodies.

And vive la différence!

---------- Post added January 21st, 2013 at 06:27 PM ----------

It would be my great pleasure to welcome you to Thailand and to do a few dives with you. I always have a good time on the boat and in the water so I'm sure we'd have fun.

(I can tell you, though, that you'll never be able to best me in a debate about the English language. I am a recognized specialist in the area, having written and published three dozen or so books on the subject.)

That implies that language is an exact science. It isn't. When someone makes a statement you can't look up all the words he used in the dictionary and therefore claim to know what he was *really* saying based on the explicit definitions of the words. What he meant when he was saying it is a function of his state of mind when he said it, and unless you know someone, you can't know that. If you are a language professor or a lawyer, you probably use language more precisely than do most of the rest of us. So sue us.

---------- Post added January 21st, 2013 at 06:36 PM ----------

"...do unto others as you would have done unto yourself"

What have you done unto yourself?

 

[DandyDon]

You make a lot of good points Mike. Men and women are very different. We would be wise to elect women to run our government. The first country to figure that out is going to be light years ahead of all the rest.

​

 

[drrich2]

One of the nebulous issues in such debates is the concept of 'respect' as it applies.

Though some of the behaviors often shown by 'gentlemanly' types toward women are also shown toward the advanced elderly, the obviously severely handicapped and young children (all perceived as weak and needing assistance at times), such behavior is often attributed not to a low estimation of a woman's abilities, but to 'respecting' women.

Which means what, exactly? We're supposed to 'respect' everybody, unless & until given cause not to. The context often implies that women are (for whatever reason) to be shown/assigned either additional respect, or some type of respect, that men are not. Women as a general class, not just one's wife, daughter, mother...

The answer must lie in some value system, since it clearly assigns some value difference to women vs. men. Our society has tried to move away from that, though there are still entrenched remnants (e.g.: debates over women in military combat, and the old 'women & children first' cliche' show our society still views men as more expendable than women).

So while the exercise of deferential & preferential treatment may not be rooted in condescension or a presumption that one is superior, it is rooted in a sexist view on some level.

Richard.

P.S.: Elsewhere I've seen before the argument 'Well, that's how my father taught me...' I'm 40 something and I remember a bit of that generation and their common views on equality, too. Using the N word for blacks was common and (when none were around) accepted, inter-racial marriage viewed as wrong and while they didn't promote slavery, a lot of them weren't fully convinced of true equality. Not all that couple of generations believed and practiced that way, but it was common. Considering the source, I'm a tad skeptical of their wisdom in treating groups differently. I bear that in mind when a view is justified in terms of 'old fashioned' values.

 

[Mike]

..says the guy who is sleeping on the couch for the next week.....

That's kind of bizarre when your argument is based on you taking the side of pigeon-holing women as being nothing more than a man with boobs. I'd love to watch how well that''s worked for you in dating and marriage.


I'd sum up the whole issue of women being identical to men with:

Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.
~ Timothy Leary

 

[gcarter]

That's kind of bizarre when your argument is based on you taking the side of pigeon-holing women as being nothing more than a man with boobs. I'd love to watch how well that''s worked for you in dating and marriage.


I'd sum up the whole issue of women being identical to men with:

Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.
~ Timothy Leary

Equal != identical. I don't think I have seen anybody say that.

 

[cbm32]

I would say that there are a BUNCH of people with WAY too much free time on their hands for this argument to go on and on and on.

I would, except I have read every post in this thread and posted in it two or three times now

 

[ggunn]

I would say that there are a BUNCH of people with WAY too much free time on their hands for this argument to go on and on and on.

I would, except I have read every post in this thread and posted in it two or three times now

Not mutually exclusive.

 

[drrich2]

It's true that 'equality' doesn't necessarily mean 'identical,' but the historical experience of 'separate but equal' segregated schooling left a lot of people wary on the idea of being categorized differently.

Richard

 

[cvchief]

This has to be the longest I have watched a train wreck thread hang around Coz before being shuffled off to the argument clinic. Has not Ron taken sufficient punishment yet....?