"Right to Repair" - Potentially great news for DIY!

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Realigning the thread (to help the newcomer) and asking @rsingler a question since he obviously knows so much about regulators especially SP (scubapro) regs:
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston/balanced SP 1st stage regulator?
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston SP 2nd stage regulator?

Do you think the training can be done online? As we know, COVID is not over.

Thank you.

I'm not Rob, but the tools required is manufacturer specific. If you've ever been at DEMA and see the booths for selling tools, there's a wide variety of what's needed for different manufacturers.

And I sure hope that training can be done online, as I've signed up for Rob's course at the end of August. I do believe using cameras are critical for mitigating the issue of not having the instructor next to you. But I'll let @rsingler answer. I hope what I just wrote matches what he'll say.

 

[Compressor]

I welcome the opportunity to do my own overhauls.

 

[Addison Snyder]

How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston/balanced SP 1st stage regulator?
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston SP 2nd stage regulator?

Lol depends on whether the brand starts with Scuba and ends with Pro

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Lol depends on whether the brand starts with Scuba and ends with Pro

That is not an inaccurate statement.

 

[SlugLife]

Realigning the thread (to help the newcomer) and asking @rsingler a question since he obviously knows so much about regulators especially SP (scubapro) regs:
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston/balanced SP 1st stage regulator?
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston SP 2nd stage regulator?

Do you think the training can be done online? As we know, COVID is not over.

Thank you.

He may answer the question better than me, but whether or not specailized tools are required depends on the brand and model of the regulator. For several scubapro regulators, the 2nd stage didn't need specialized tools, but the 1st stage did. On the 1st stages, I needed a flat pin-spanner, curved pin-spanner, o-ring insert tool & piston bullet.

He has an online course that he teaches, and there's a long thread about it somewhere. I didn't take his course (though I've heard good things) and learned how to service my regulators using online resources. So if he's a good teacher, his online course should probably work for you.

 

[halocline]

How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston/balanced SP 1st stage regulator?
How many specialized tools does one need to overhaul/service a piston SP 2nd stage regulator?

Do you think the training can be done online? As we know, COVID is not over.

Thank you.

The answer might depend on what you would consider specialized. There are very few brand-specific tools that are required, but some will add convenience. An example would be the splined wrench to remove the SP hose fittings. You can successfully remove these fittings with a pair of pliers and some padding, but it's easier with the SP tool. There are various spanners but those don't have to be brand specific. A set of pin spanners and hook spanners that fit will work fine. You don't need the o-ring installation tool but it makes things quicker and easier.

For the earlier SP balanced piston 1st stages, you do need a piston bullet, but that's inexpensive and could probably be made out of dowel with a little work. For the MK15/20/25 you do need some sort of tool to install the bushings; it is possible to do the job without the specific SP tool for this, but again it's much quicker and eaiser with the model-specific tool.

Then there are things like an IP gauge (absolutely needed for 1st stages), o-ring picks (needed for all), torque wrench, allen keys, etc...if you have yoke regulators you need an appropriate socket, and a standard 1" socket won't fit, so you either buy a scuba-specific one or grind down a standard socket. You need a vise to hold 1st stages, you need something to grip them through a port (I just cut a few inches off an old LP hose and use that)

An ultrasonic cleaner is nice to have, but once again, you can make do with just a slightly acidic bath, some time, and a few small brushes. A magnehelic is not necessary, and you can make a sort of manometer with some clear tubing if you want. But you don't need them, you can simply adjust cracking effort to where it 'feels' right, with some experience it's possible to get pretty accurate with your own senses.

I think some people could learn to work on regulators very well with online training, depending of course on the quality of the training and the aptitude of the student. One thing is certain, the in-person weekend 'certification' seminars offered by SP to train their technicians is nothing to write home about. So I'm POSITIVE that Rob's class is far far more comprehensive than that.

 

[Bigbella]

Realigning the thread (to help the newcomer) and asking @rsingler a question since he obviously knows so much about . . . regulators?

Do you think the training can be done online?

I cannot say, for certain, just how many specialized tools are now required for a given Scubapro, first and second stage, as per your original question; but it only requires basically three (not including a hemostat), for example, for a Poseidon Xstream -- tools, for the most part, that have been around, for decades, for earlier regulators. To work on all the other allied models, requires, about three other specialized, though very simple tools.

Judging from the success and interest in @rsingler's ongoing courses, training can indeed be achieved online (coincidentally, manufacturers are doing just that, for regulator-tech courses, during the ongoing covidiocy); and considering a recent review, his instruction was far more demanding than any of the pissant manufacturer's courses that I had ever attended — and Rob, to his credit, is not serving stale doughnuts and danishes, and military-grade coffee, at a Marriott . . .

 

[rsingler]

I'm not @happy-diver , so I'm not good enough to repair a reg with a spoon, a chopstick and two nails in a piece of wood. But @halocline had it right. You don't need much if you understand the theory (critical), and you're doing three regs every two years. Taking an extra half hour is no big deal. But the specialized tools (read: $$) sure make things faster.
As with many things, it's a cost benefit ratio.
But it IS worth noting that without the specialized tools, the risk of regulator damage rises exponentially. So if you're doing one piston reg with a chopstick instead of a brass bullet, that's okay. You just need to go slow, and understand what you're doing.
We (@couv and I and others) hope to provide that key extra during the Seminars.
"It ain't rocket science, but it IS precise."

 

[The Chairman]

www.ScubaTools.com is my favorite venue for these kinds of tools and they have them categorized by manufacturer.

 

[kelemvor]

Strawman.

Not at all. Farmers started the right to repair movement even before Rossmann chimed in about tech. Typically farmers fix all their stuff, but can't really do that with modern tractors. At least according to videos and articles they've written.

Technically Right to Repair is already written in law in the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia but apparently nobody has been willing to challenge a "no" all the way to the courts often enough to get it enforced. Kind of funny that the law specifically bans the little "warranty void if opened" stickers which I see on stuff all the time.

We need a new law, and more importantly an agency to enforce it. It's just too expensive for a consumer to take Apple or HP to court over their broken device every single time.

Until I saw the thread here, I hadn't even thought of right to repair regarding scuba stuff. Regulators, dive computers, etc... it will be nice to finally have them become something other than disposable. Has to be especially frustrating for folks who have had to replace a DC for a simple dead battery. In addition to making parts available, I'm sure some devices will have to be changed so that it's possible to even open the device. It has to be a really good feeling for the folks at Deep6 who were already doing the right thing. Hats off to those guys.

...and to think, I recently was considering buying scubapro mk25/s600 reg service kits from someone in Japan because scubapro won't sell them to me directly (in violation of current US law). I'm sure that will come to an end soon. Woohoo!