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The fact is that you would be taking work away from a local - not ok. No different than USA wanting only documented workers who pay taxes, no different here.
That's something worth quoting just to point it out. There is often a lot of discourse on exactly that (except in the opposite direction) in the USA. It's good to see an opinion from "the other side" of the equation. I have to admit, until I read your post I had not considered it that way. On the other hand, no Mexican is paying him so money isn't leaving the country. You guys don't give free medical (or other benefits) to foreigners so that's not part of the equation like it is in reverse.

That's got me curious about something. How do these rules affect a dive shop who sends an instructor or DM along with a group on a shop organized dive trip? Is that instructor allowed to teach students that they brought to Cozumel in Cozumel? That's a very common scenario in my neck of the woods.

I know my wife took a nitrox course instructed by an American citizen in Cozumel. No money changed hands, it was a freebie "with the trip."

If those are allowed, what's the difference between this and ABNFrog's situation? I feel like I could waffle on the fence of this issue for a while.
 
That's something worth quoting just to point it out. There is often a lot of discourse on exactly that (except in the opposite direction) in the USA. It's good to see an opinion from "the other side" of the equation. I have to admit, until I read your post I had not considered it that way. On the other hand, no Mexican is paying him so money isn't leaving the country. You guys don't give free medical (or other benefits) to foreigners so that's not part of the equation like it is in reverse.

That's got me curious about something. How do these rules affect a dive shop who sends an instructor or DM along with a group on a shop organized dive trip? Is that instructor allowed to teach students that they brought to Cozumel in Cozumel? That's a very common scenario in my neck of the woods.

I know my wife took a nitrox course instructed by an American citizen in Cozumel. No money changed hands, it was a freebie "with the trip."

If those are allowed, what's the difference between this and ABNFrog's situation? I feel like I could waffle on the fence of this issue for a while.

Actually, that's against MX law as well. The fact that money is not changing hands has no bearing on it whatsoever - it is still work being taken away from a Mexican by someone who is not legal to perform or provide services. That student could be referred to a MX Instructor, that's one of the reasons the referral system exists - not so a dive shop can take a trip to another country and work with another businesses resources and liability.
 
no Mexican is paying him so money isn't leaving the country.

I don't think he said that no Mexican (or company based in Mexico) was paying him. He said he would be being paid in his home country. It's extremely easy to pay someone in France from a French account for work performed in Bahrain. It's probably legal, too, as long as all the paperwork is in order. In the case of "no paperwork", I really took this to mean he was going to be paid under the table.

You guys don't give free medical (or other benefits) to foreigners

Sure they do. Every civilized country does. They may not like to, but hospitals are going to treat you if you need it and sort out payment issues later. In some cases that may mean they never get paid. The biggest difference is that in most countries access to healthcare is considered a basic human right so people don't get quite as wound up at the idea of a sick person getting "free care". They also tend to have reciprocal arrangements between governments to account for expensive care of a foreigner. Nobody can make such arrangements with the US in the absence of an actual US healthcare system.

In terms of "other benefits", I'm not a Mexican citizen but I am entitled to certain social benefits if I were to need them. I don't need them, so I don't access them, but they're available.

so that's not part of the equation like it is in reverse.

I have no clue what this means. To what "reverse" are you referring? If you're implying that a foreigner can roll up and just get free routine medical care in the US, you are completely mistaken. They're absolutely going to get billed. If they get a prescription they're probably screwed because there's a good chance it'll be too expensive to fill. They may not pay the bill, but in the US basically nobody is entitled to free care. The notion that foreigners are somehow able to access free healthcare that isn't available to citizens or legal residents is complete fiction.

I feel like I could waffle on the fence of this issue for a while.

This just does not seem like a vague notion to me at all. You don't just get to show up in the US from somewhere else and expect to be allowed to take a job, even a part-time crappy job, without permission to do so. The people who most presume that happens all the time are among those get the most wound up about it, but those are the very people who should assume other countries are no happier about it. For the hippies who think borders are dumb anyway, they're just going to have to accept that for a range of legitimate reasons (and, sure, some bogus ones), countries restrict who can do certain things within their borders. For those who care about illegal immigration or inappropriate use of a country's resources by foreigners, it should be very easy to understand that "illegal is illegal" everywhere, not just in the US. For those who aren't at all bothered by illegal immigration, it's still the case that many people don't like it at all and that people with such views are prevalent in every country.
 
I don't think he said that no Mexican (or company based in Mexico) was paying him. He said he would be being paid in his home country. It's extremely easy to pay someone in France from a French account for work performed in Bahrain. It's probably legal, too, as long as all the paperwork is in order. In the case of "no paperwork", I really took this to mean he was going to be paid under the table.



Sure they do. Every civilized country does. They may not like to, but hospitals are going to treat you if you need it and sort out payment issues later. In some cases that may mean they never get paid. The biggest difference is that in most countries access to healthcare is considered a basic human right so people don't get quite as wound up at the idea of a sick person getting "free care". They also tend to have reciprocal arrangements between governments to account for expensive care of a foreigner. Nobody can make such arrangements with the US in the absence of an actual US healthcare system.

In terms of "other benefits", I'm not a Mexican citizen but I am entitled to certain social benefits if I were to need them. I don't need them, so I don't access them, but they're available.



I have no clue what this means. To what "reverse" are you referring? If you're implying that a foreigner can roll up and just get free routine medical care in the US, you are completely mistaken. They're absolutely going to get billed. If they get a prescription they're probably screwed because there's a good chance it'll be too expensive to fill. They may not pay the bill, but in the US basically nobody is entitled to free care. The notion that foreigners are somehow able to access free healthcare that isn't available to citizens or legal residents is complete fiction.



This just does not seem like a vague notion to me at all. You don't just get to show up in the US from somewhere else and expect to be allowed to take a job, even a part-time crappy job, without permission to do so. The people who most presume that happens all the time are among those get the most wound up about it, but those are the very people who should assume other countries are no happier about it. For the hippies who think borders are dumb anyway, they're just going to have to accept that for a range of legitimate reasons (and, sure, some bogus ones), countries restrict who can do certain things within their borders. For those who care about illegal immigration or inappropriate use of a country's resources by foreigners, it should be very easy to understand that "illegal is illegal" everywhere, not just in the US. For those who aren't at all bothered by illegal immigration, it's still the case that many people don't like it at all and that people with such views are prevalent in every country.
The US healthcare is free for everybody if they don't pay. In Mexico you are going to prove you can pay first.
 
The US healthcare is free for everybody if they don't pay. In Mexico you are going to prove you can pay first.
I have found it to be the opposite when getting medical treatment in Mexico. The first thing they did was treat me, then took billing info. In the US it seems that for the last decade or so the first thing wanted is insurance and payment information before you see an actual medical worker. I have noticed that in the US when I go to a doctor or dentists office there seems to be more workers involved administration than actually involved in providing medical care. Not sure how america actually ranks in AVERAGE medical care provided but we certainly rank #1 in billing.
 
I have found it to be the opposite when getting medical treatment in Mexico. The first thing they did was treat me, then took billing info. In the US it seems that for the last decade or so the first thing wanted is insurance and payment information before you see an actual medical worker. I have noticed that in the US when I go to a doctor or dentists office there seems to be more workers involved administration than actually involved in providing medical care. Not sure how america actually ranks in AVERAGE medical care provided but we certainly rank #1 in billing.
Just got back from a week in Monterrey MX. Stayed with a couple there. She had a cataract surgery scheduled for the morning we left. He had to go in the day before to sign a financial responsibility form. These are fairly well to do people with insurance who have lived there for 50 years or more. No form, no surgery.
 
The US healthcare is free for everybody if they don't pay. In Mexico you are going to prove you can pay first.

That has not been my experience when I've needed to access emergency medical services in Cozumel. At this point, every member of my immediate family has had emergency medical care on the island, some more than once. My wife was mugged on her scooter and had significant injuries requiring orthopedic care. My son has had multiple skateboard-related injuries. I had kidney stones that made themselves apparent as I was getting off the plane. People have had pyelonephritis and other serious medical conditions. At no time did anyone discuss payment until we were ready to leave.

For non-emergent conditions, such as cataract surgery, you're going to have to arrange reimbursement up front (including by being covered by a national healthcare system) up front anywhere in the world.
 
Just got back from a week in Monterrey MX. Stayed with a couple there. She had a cataract surgery scheduled for the morning we left. He had to go in the day before to sign a financial responsibility form. These are fairly well to do people with insurance who have lived there for 50 years or more. No form, no surgery.

You think it's possible to just show up to a planned surgery or procedure in the US the day it is scheduled (often weeks in advance) and not pay prior to the procedure or having had gone through a process with insurance? Wow...
 
Not sure how america actually ranks in AVERAGE medical care provided

Not great, and worsening.

In terms of access to care (as defined by a number of standard benchmarks including availability of same day appointments and availability of appointments in 6 days), deaths amenable to healthcare (i.e., likely preventable if good care were available), potential years of life lost, disease burden (age-standardized disability adjusted life years), and hospital admissions for preventable diseases, rates of medical errors, the US comes dead last compared to 10 other high-income countries. We're tops, by far, in medical spending per capita among those countries.

In ranking 190 countries for which comparable data is available, using standards that pretty much everyone agrees upon like the ones above, the US comes in around 37, just above Slovenia but below Dominica and Morocco. Mexico is at 61 on that list, above countries with much larger economies such as Russia at 130. In that list several countries that don't make the list of 10 high-income countries do very well in comparison to many of the high-income countries, which is why the US falls so far below #10. That is, we do poorly in comparison to high-income countries, but it looks even worse when we don't limit the comparison to high-income countries.

The US healthcare system does do some things well, and a few things very well. There are very few things at which we could legitimately say it's the best. To think we have the best system in the world, or even very close to it, is somewhere in the range of ignorant to delusional. 37 out of 190 isn't bad, but given how much we spend per person on healthcare, we are assuredly not getting what we think we're paying for.
 
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