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Resort's " New Normal " Rule - No AIR 2 or diving your long hose

Discussion in 'General Travel & Vacation Discussions' started by beaverdivers, May 21, 2020.

  1. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
    Perhaps it is because my field is "applied physics", which is en empirical science, where everything is based on experimental evidence. And new evidence triggers continuously a change of the rules.
    I agree that "true science" should only be what is called an "exact science". There is only one exact science, and this is math. All other sciences have some contamination from experimental evidence.
    Unfortunately math alone does not suffice for most applications, hence the need of these not-exact sciences, which are systematically failing by some amount in how they describe reality.
    In all these scientific fields there is always some amount of error, which should be managed and taken into account. Only a not-scientist thrusts entirely on the results of scientific calculations or simulations, a scientist is always suspicious.
    Regarding the fact that science "correct its errors by itself over time", unfortunately also this is a myth.
    In realty, errors tend to propagate and to become strongly embedded in scientific theories. Usually a profound breakthrough is required for dismantling old consolidated theories, and these disruptions are rare, and often caused by special men which pass to the history for destroying a high pile of previous scientific theories which were based on some wrong assumption. These people are initially considered heretics and the scientific community rejects them together with their new theories, until finally some proof is so strong that the previous wrong theory is finally discarded.
    Colliam7, hammet and markmud like this.
  2. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    This is certainly true historically. Is it as true today?
  3. markmud

    markmud Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South Lebanon, Ohio
    Hey Big Kahuna,

    Was it The Macallan 18? Glenlivet 18? Black Label? …? Or Dewars like we shared on Curacao? Do you remember, we kept ordering it neat and the bartenders could not fathom that concept? Their CPU's locked-up on that one.

    Amen bro!

    Profound! That is all I have to say about that! We are living your profundity right now with SARS-COV-2. "Follow the Science on Covid 19." We are just now getting data and randomized testing that can lead to science. What true science is there for 19?

    Eliminating hog looped primaries is going to save us from what disease? Where are the double blind and peer reviewed studies that prove that a person who is totally asymptomatic can spew enough 19 to infect someone u/w while having just rinsed the reg in salt water?

    Study claiming asymptomatic people with COV can spread it was WRONG

    If you are scuba diving, you are somewhat healthy. Unhealthy people, for the most part, are dying from 19.

    The CDC now estimates the CFR for 19 at .4 percent. Estimates for IFR are less than .26 percent from CDC data.

    How about I check my SPG (Perdix AI and Oceanic AI) and avoid going OOA? After all, I don't want to take a chance that I may survive SARS-COV-2 with a 99.74 percent chance. I am not extremely old and have no comorbidities. I am in decent shape. I scored an "Excellent" on my physical exam one week ago. I have no managed health issues. My chances of surviving 19 are almost 100%.

    When I get 19, and everyone like me, herd immunity will be achieved. My peers and I will save most of the unhealthy.
    Are there any studies, double blind and peer reviewed, for therapeutic and prophylactic strategy/tactics specifically for SARS-COV-2?

    Doctors are using trial and error, and their best judgement combined with anecdotal experience from other doctors.

    We have some data and mostly opinion. Requiring people to remove their hog looped primaries is fear mongering.

    To iterate, if you don't want my spit from my hog looped primary, don't dive with me and secondly, don't go OOA.

    GameChanger and saxman242 like this.
  4. Searcaigh

    Searcaigh Chromodoris gordonii Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Dubai, UAE
    Yes Ma'am :wavesmiley:
    chillyinCanada likes this.
  5. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    How is this based in science?

    So, according to the Chairman, this post and its assertions will correct itself in time, if it is science, or it will not be corrected, if it is BS.
    But is it not the role of science to correct the BS?
  6. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
    It is more true than in the past, unfortunately. The modern academic world is based on "bibliometrics", a new science born for measuring the "productivity" of scientists. For advancing in your career and for getting research funds, your bibliometric score must be high.
    Most of this score is based on counting citations.
    So if you publish papers which follow the "main stream", you will find hundredths of other scientists making very similar work, that will cite you.
    If you are an "heretic", exploring new paths, no one will cite you, hence your scores will be low: no money, no better position...
    The net result is that, while the number of published scientific papers is exploding, the real innovation is less and less. Mainstream methods and theory are harder to overcome than in the past. And no one will finance research topics which are not mainstream...

    Sorry for going so much off topic...
  7. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY

    Sorry for the potential OT. @markmud, can you point me to the source of your data?
    The data I have access to set the CFR for USA at 6%, quite stable; here one of the sources I use to consult:
    Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19) in the United States
    Here the chart:
    The number of really infected people in USA is estimated to be 4 times the number of confirmed cases, hence the IFR should be around 1.5%.
    Here in Italy the CFR is actually stable at 14%, but we estimate to have a total number of infected which is roughly 8-10 times the number of confirmed cases, hence again the IFR is around 1.5%.
    If you have better data source, please share...
    chillyinCanada and markmud like this.
  8. beaverdivers

    beaverdivers ScubaBoard Business Sponsor ScubaBoard Business Sponsor

    My perspective is a global one. As I mentioned, I am part Dutch ( 50% ). The Dutch have an open - minded free culture. Bonaire has been an icon of Diving Freedom, since Captain Don. You could get a cylinder and dive at any time day or night. You could dive the way you choose.
    I am shocked that an operator would contrive senseless rules in Bonaire. I am just speaking with my wallet. I am not just doing what I want, I am simply choosing to patronize businesses that continue to give us the freedom to dive as we choose.

    Please share the European guidelines that resulted in this rule: No AIR 2/ Tech. rig usage while diving.
  9. saxman242

    saxman242 Manta Ray

    markmud likes this.
  10. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    Glenfidditch that was 20 something years old. We became good friends through all that. :D I do remember Curacao.

    No, this is profound.

    The best solution to any problem is to avoid having that problem. If you're truly worried about being infected by your buddy, carry alternate air, like a pony... or simply never run out of air.

    Can you be a tad more specific? How is WHAT based on science?

    Not all rules are based on science and they needn't be. My second rule of diving certainly isn't. Neither is my third. I've cited four things that rules are based on, but there could be more.
    You can't reason with an unreasonable person. When people make BS claims, it's been my experience that the likelihood of them reverting and relying on science are either diddly or squat: you choose. Politicize or religionize that claim and your chances of getting through are even worse. You'll be labeled a commie or a witch and then be burned at the stake.

    Indeed, voting with your fins is a time honored tradition.
    beaverdivers, rsingler and markmud like this.

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