Regulator servicing... everyone that's not a tech, vote...

If you work on your own regs and are not a tech, would you take the courses?

  • Yes, I would love to... a good diver learns as much as he/she can and doesn't put their safety in ot

    Votes: 98 81.7%
  • No, i know enough and have sources for parts

    Votes: 5 4.2%
  • No, who needs it? Safety Smaftey (this is what the people that select the option below think we are

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • I'm one of the "let the techs do it" so i shouldn't be voting anyway

    Votes: 16 13.3%

  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .

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FLL Diver once bubbled...


Mike - I've followed this and other similar threads with interest, and have always respected your opinion and support of the LDS. However this comment does say it all. If you know you're providing a service that there's no market for, then I respectively submit that any problems you have making ends meet are strictly self imposed. I know in my business that we've had to change how we operate, and pricing is no where near where it was two years ago.

Adapt or die.

Marc :jester:

I think that is what I said it is a choice. It's my choice. Of course it took many thousands of dollars and hours to figure it out.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I think that is what I said it is a choice. It's my choice. Of course it took many thousands of dollars and hours to figure it out.

Well for what its worth i think you made a good choice fielded by a lack of demand.I think everyone should run open water classes like you.You believe in quality and not quanity which is good but bad for making money in your position.Ill admit when i first got into diving i wanted the cheapest lessons i could find to get certified.I never knew what diving was all about till much later.I was your average tourist diver and didnt desire anymore at the time.Now i dive a BP/wing,7 ft hose and am looking forward to more tecnical training(like you provide) to make myself a better more safe and efficient divier.I never knew it would lead to this.I feel most people looking to dive are very ill informed of their choices and what style of diving they can pursue.
 
my style of diving is get wet and have fun. I have no other motives... its for leisure... hmmm its recreational diving... thats is what we do it for, right? We sure don't make any money under there do we? If you're not making money down there, and you're not doing it for fun, why the heck are you down there? A friend of mine dates a guy that some of these comments remind me of. The I have a boat, he has a space shuttle kind of guy. Who got into diving to see if they could pull off a 300 ft. decompression dive? Most all of us got into it to have fun and see what's down there. To explore another world. Some people seem like all they want to do is sit around with their 7 ft hose bungied around their neck and tell people about it. I just want to have fun diving... so call me a rec diver all you want... it doesn't make you a better or safer diver... you're just as likely to die down there with a bp/wings as you are without. It's what's between your ears that makes you a safe diver, not what equipment you buy.
Just to add to this, I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone on this thread, just making generalization, which I apologize for if they offend any of you. This is not my intention because I know there's a lot of great guys with 7 ft hoses around
Heck, if you're gonna turn my thread around, i gotta get my 2 cents in a few times.
 
fail within the first 5 years.

Of those 9, most fail due to lack of a proper market analysis and business plan BEFORE the business opens its doors.

The lack of such by a business, or even a large group of businesses, does not justify the use of anti-competitive measures, or their endorsement by others, to try to protect against free market forces.
 
Genesis is right the LP monopoly must be broken!
 
If Microsoft can be forced to give up it's source code LP should tell me where they buy their stock. Much of it I can't buy at any reasonable price. The stuff I can buy is at a much higher price and subject to conditions that directly prevent me from competing with LP (such as no online sales). LP and a very few others clearly have a market to themselves that existe totally independant of the scuba industry as it exists out in the open. We don't know who or where these suppliers are. I am forced by my limited sources to teach and sell air. I am forced by the agency (who lets me teach) to have insurance that they approve. I am forced by the insurance company to abide by my sources rules and those of the agency. If I let any one of these things slip the whole thing comes apart and I have no supplier or business at all.

If this isn't against the law it damned well should be. If this isn't unfair competition then nothing is.
 
If Microsoft can be forced to give up it's source code LP should tell me where they buy their stock. Much of it I can't buy at any reasonable price.

You have, several times, disclosed exactly where LP gets their stock and how they hit their numbers, and you have told me that you know (not just suspect) they get it from these sources. You have also stated that you know they sell at a near-zero margin, which, if true, means you could buy from them and resell at very close to their price. WIth your local service and immediate delivery attached, you could probably even move significant product this way.

The stuff I can buy is at a much higher price and subject to conditions that directly prevent me from competing with LP (such as no online sales).

Not even close. You could buy from them, for instance, or you could buy from the very same places that you claim they get their merchandise from. Remember, you have said more than once that you know where they get their stock from.

(BTW, refusal to order in a given quantity to get a given price is not unfair competition. You CAN buy in that quantity - you just refuse to do so. That you would have to grow your business to obtain that volume pricing is not material - nor is it a violation of the law.)

LP and a very few others clearly have a market to themselves that existe totally independant of the scuba industry as it exists out in the open. We don't know who or where these suppliers are.

False. By your own words. You have stated, publically and right here, that you know exactly where LP gets their product and in many cases what they pay for it.

I am forced by my limited sources to teach and sell air. I am forced by the agency (who lets me teach) to have insurance that they approve. I am forced by the insurance company to abide by my sources rules and those of the agency. If I let any one of these things slip the whole thing comes apart and I have no supplier or business at all.

No you're not.

I've already explained how you get around these self-imposed requirements. You choose to teach and sell air. You could eschew this insurance and just be a retail establishment with ordinary retail insurance, nothing more or less. Just like LP, I might add.

Funny how they're not "forced" to enter a business they don't want to be in, but you are. Forced? No, Mike. Its a choice. A business model choice that you took of your own free volition and which appears, now, to not be all that good of a decision, according to your various posts here.

You choose to sell air and teach, and you further choose not to separate your business interests so that you have two businesses - one which sells hardware and one which sells instruction and air.

That separation would get rid of the insurance "problem" you claim to have. Note that LP fixes hardware. They do sales and service, but do not teach or sell air. They seem to be able to get whatever insurance they think they need. Why? Maybe because they don't teach or sell air. So why not separate the firms Mike? Have two - one that sells air and instruction, and has "dive shop" insurance. The second is a pure retail and repair establishment.

Why, that sounds an AWFUL lot like a LDS down here that has two separate firms - one for their shop, the second for their BOAT!

I've even explained how you can avoid these problems, and suggested that you talk to corporate counsel about how you would implement such a thing and whether it would provide the protection you feel you need in your jurisdiction.

Instead of doing so, you choose to whine and bleat here about LP being "unfair" and having "hidden" means of supply, even though you have told me right here, in this very thread, that you know EXACTLY how LP sources their merchandise and, in fact, you COULD emulate them - if you decided to.

If this isn't against the law it damned well should be. If this isn't unfair competition then nothing is.

Its against the law to do something you know how to do, but choose not to?

You're losing it Mike.
 
I stopped at LDS (to get air, price a wing, and talk training) today and found that he recently became a Scubapro dealer. This area (50 mile radius) lost it's only SP dealer about 4 years ago so I suspect SP was looking to reestablish a presence. I was looking at a DR wing and asked if he could compete with LP price. (Unfortunately, he said he could not.) But he also told me that he had gotten a call from Leisurepro who wanted to buy 6 figures worth of SP goods. So, some of their stuff does come from US retailers and they (LP) must be doing fairly well if they can even make such an offer.

I also noticed that the SP prices have dropped significantly. He had the Mk25/S600 for a retail price of $522.00. That is a couple hundred less than retail 2 years ago when I got mine from diveinn. Out of couriousity, I checked LP and Diveinn prices. LP was $325.00 but out of stock and Diveinn was $425.00. With those differences, an LDS can start to seriously compete by charging around $470.00 (SP allowed 10% discount)and sweetening the deal with free labor on 1st annual service, 10 free tank rental, or 20 free air fills.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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