Regulator maintenance

[Wetsuit 4 life]

Hello,

This is what I normally do if my regs have been setting unused for some time or whenever I change out any of the LP or HP hoses
just set up the regulator on a tank, pressurize the system and listen for air escaping, test the purge and breath off each second stage
then I take a spry bottle with soapy water and spray the first and second stages as well as along the hoses. If I should see any bubbles from escaped air
then I'll take it in to the LDS.

If there are no problems then on my next dive I'll be more observe of any changes in my regs performance before, during, and after the dive
I hoped that helped

Cheers

 

[theduckguru]

You realize for $200 a year you would be better off buying new, using unserviced for 3 years and selling?

Hi there,

I need to get maintenance done on my Scubapro regs. I went to Ocean Quest to see how much it would be and was quoted about $200 for 1st and 2nd stage. Needless to say I was shocked especially cause thats almost how much I paid for the regs in the 1st place.

I was researching on what my options are and found basically 1. Alot of people said to go DIY route, however I am not sure if I am comfortable doing that seeing how I have no idea what I am doing. How hard would it be to DIY maintenance? Is there any courses that I could take that could teach me how to do this? Any other options?

I really don't want to pay $200 every year for maintenance, especially if I can do it myself or if there are cheaper routs to take.

Thanks in advance.

 

[redacted]

Nothing eliminates a chance of failure, servicing any kind of equipment helps reduce the chance of a failure.
I am a Scubapro tech - although I do not work for a dive shop, I am associated with one.
A HP seat and/or LP seats are like any other oring and lubricant - with time they become ineffective, dry out, split, crack and displace, even inside a regulator. With all seats, there are 2 parts the seat itself and the moving sealing mechanism normally made of a harder compound (steal for HP). A couple of things happen which creates problems. The seal becomes distorted over time or hardens/softens which affects the sealing characteristic of the seat. As the steal portion sits against the seat (under spring pressure) it distorts the seat creating high/low IP settings which greatly affect the performance of a 1st stage. We (the dive shop and I) find that this is a very common problem with regs that sit for any long period of time and require adjustment prior to use (usually done on site when someone turms their reg on and finds that it is free flowing for no obvious reason). Depending on the circumstance and the dive, you can do a field adjustment, but I always recomend that the reg gets serviced.
It's like changing the oil in your car, you can debate it all day that you don't have to do it. But in the end, if you want it to last you need to service it regularly.

Hello,

This is what I normally do if my regs have been setting unused for some time or whenever I change out any of the LP or HP hoses
just set up the regulator on a tank, pressurize the system and listen for air escaping, test the purge and breath off each second stage
then I take a spry bottle with soapy water and spray the first and second stages as well as along the hoses. If I should see any bubbles from escaped air
then I'll take it in to the LDS.

If there are no problems then on my next dive I'll be more observe of any changes in my regs performance before, during, and after the dive
I hoped that helped

Cheers

HP seats for piston regulators are affected by use but are mostly unaffected by time. Unlike most LP seats, the HP seat is only in contact with the metal sealing surface when the regulator is under pressure. Most HP seats are a hard plastic (nylon) material which does not tend to degrade over time unless exposed to an adverse environment. HP seating problems are readily revealed simply with an IP check - no disassembly required.

Older used regs do deserve a good checkout and maybe some disassembly before you should trust them. Some older Scubapro regulators used some o-rings which appear to be more subject to deterioration over time. Some others are just fine. I have picked up and older, unused, Scubapro Mk3 (30 to 45 years old) which I did disassemble to inspect and put into service with nothing more than a little lube. Even that may well have been unnecessary but silly to not lube at that point. OTOH I have found that red o-rings used in a number of applications at one time by Scubapro are prone to degrading over time and hardening and becoming brittle. Some of the older urethane HP piston o-rings may suffer the same problem. So older Scubapro regs should be disassembled enough to check those out. Although, I tested one Scubapro 109 that had a red orifice o-ring that was more like a piece of plastic then a rubber material and it revealed itself as just a slow leak.

 

[CapitanBlack]

Where in B.C. to service four sets of Aqualung Legends for a reasonable price?
Thank you!

 

[CR Diver]

I agree, older used regs do deserve a good checkout and disassembly(why not assemble with new parts?), especially a used purchased reg that is well past its recomended service, which is what the OP is questioning. The Op's post was looking for options, depending on the model of Scubapro reg, they will need a good collection of tools, as well as knowledge on how that particular reg gets re-assembled and set up if they plan on going the DIY route. I believe that the best solution is to have the reg serviced by a Scubapro Tech.
In saying that I have purchased used Scubapro Mk10's (that had sat for unknown time) without servicng them prior to use - never had a problem with them, but did service them when I had time.
I do have a question - If regs (particularly HP seats) are unaffected by time, why do manufacturing companies have service intervals recomended by time and usage, opposed to usage alone? Also, why would they recomend that the HP seat be replaced annually in their service manuals and not every 2nd year as some of the other o-rings? There are companies that extend their recomended service interval to 2 years (Atomic) but only because they have a different HP seat integrated into their 1st stages. Why would the HP seat be the only determining factor in regards to the extension - Atomic's claim not mine. Not a challenge, just looking for your thoughts and/or opinion.

 

[kirasir]

Where in B.C. to service four sets of Aqualung Legends for a reasonable price?
Thank you!

At home.

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

 

[redacted]

I agree, older used regs do deserve a good checkout and disassembly(why not assemble with new parts?)....


I do have a question - If regs (particularly HP seats) are unaffected by time, why do manufacturing companies have service intervals recomended by time and usage, opposed to usage alone? Also, why would they recomend that the HP seat be replaced annually in their service manuals and not every 2nd year as some of the other o-rings? There are companies that extend their recomended service interval to 2 years (Atomic) but only because they have a different HP seat integrated into their 1st stages. Why would the HP seat be the only determining factor in regards to the extension - Atomic's claim not mine. Not a challenge, just looking for your thoughts and/or opinion.

Well, I guess we do agree on many points but I would like to address your questions.

First on why not replace all the parts: The main reason is that parts, for most DIY divers are (or were), hard to come by. So, if you learn early on to not waste the parts you have managed to acquire needlessly. After all, even the manufacturer kits only contain a portion of the typically replaced parts. I do see an up side to this for the DIYer. Unlike some shop techs, servicing a reg is not simply a matter of tearing it down, clean as necessary, and throw a new parts kit in (sometimes called an underhaul). You actually have to learn to inspect parts and you need to have a good understanding of failure modes so you can better decide which, if any, apparently good parts should be replaced. This approach can even become habit forming. For example, I now have a lifetime supply of LP homemade seats (about $0.01 each) for my Scubapro unbalanced 2nds (and most other parts). Yet, I still flip a once used seat rather than replace the part. I hate to waste them. Finally, the inspection I am talking about rarely involves a complete disassembly. Think of it as on par with the "off-year" inspections recommended by Aqualung and Atomic.

Why would the MFGR recommend annual service (or semi-annual) and replacement of HP (and LP) seats: For divers who do not take reasonable care of their regulators (and have no idea how to do a good inspection/test) a periodic service interval may not be a bad idea. More importantly though is the fact that periodic service brings a steady flow of income to the authorized retailers. And, while some "professional" services do create more problems than they prevent, servicing a regulator is just not that difficult so such services usually leave the regulator as good or better than when it came in. The bottom line is almost everybody benefits as long as long as the diver does not mind the often unnecessary expense. (Probably much more tolerable when the labor charge was $10 to $15 per stage rather than the 2 or 3 fold increase we are seeing from some shops today.) I doubt if there is any real material difference between an Atomic or Aqualung seat and any other mgfrs seats. There service interval recommendations are more a marketing strategy than anything else. There are clearly some components that are effected by time (and storage conditions). All o-ring and other soft will degrade (including take a set) over time. But the time interval is, for the most part, 5, 10, or even 20 years. LP seats may be an exception where they can take a set in just a year or so which can have a small effect on performance. But by storing the with most or all of the spring pressure relieved that effect can be greatly reduced. Of course storage needs to be in controlled temperature and chemical exposure conditions easily found in most homes. One other point with piston HP seats. If a seat is going to be reused, it is usually important to not disturb the relationship of the seat and the sealing edge. So, I do not remove the HP seat from the seat carrier (retainer) of my Mk5/7/10s unless I decide to replace it. This is not as important with Mk2/3/200 where the metal edge is not as sharp or the Mk20/25 where the metal edge is again not as sharp and the cup seal seems to have a much larger potential surface area. I have found I can really extent the life of those seats just by cleaning and lubing the seating surfaces during service rather than replacing the HP seat. Eventually the increasing frequency of such cleaning/lubing to regain reasonably stable IP may make a seat change the better option (but I really hate to waste my stash).

 

[CR Diver]

Thanks for the well explained/written response.
I have never given a lot of thought in regards to part availablity, I have seen enough kits available via internet purchasing I thought one could get them fairly easily. Also being associated with a Dive Shop I have never had to worry about parts support.

I agree that there are lots of extra parts that a person accumulates while servicing equipment, as you mentioned/know that service kits can encompass more than one regulator model, therefore have parts in them that you couldn't use, even if you wanted to. Most shops will put all the used parts in a bag for the customer, but I don't know any that put the unused portion of parts from the service pack in a bag for the customer - might be something to ask for when getting your regulators serviced by a shop. Good point in regards to a 'underhaul' that you can recieve at a shop as I have seen Scubapro techs take apart MK25 and MK17 and not know how to re-assemble them and/or bend parts upon reassemble (easy to do with the MK17 center pins) - so it is important to either find a good service tech and/or start servicing them yourself. I caution anyone that is new to servicing regs to make sure you have some support prior to dis -assembling a MK25 and/or MK17 as they have a lot of parts and challenge seasoned service techs. Even with schematic's of these regs - techs get confused on the exact orientaion of parts and the placement of O-rings. Also, there are a few do's and don'ts that go with these regs, an example is never adjust the IP pressure on a MK25 while the 1st stage is pressurized as it cuts the HP seat.

Interesting comments on the service interval, our opinions differ on this subject as I will continue and promote recomended service intervals for regulators - with any life supporting breathing apparatus, I believe it is worth the expense of the servicing. Although I do have a US diver set that I use in the pool and during no-deco dives that I extend well past 1 year between servicing.

Outside of the 4 Scubapro, 1 US diver reg sets, I also have and service my Atomic reg sets as well. I like the Atomics because they are a very simple regulator, they do have a different engineerd HP seat/knife edge on the piston that is designed to extend the service period to 2 years, so I save the money on parts kits for these regs. I service them myself for the simple reason that I save a bit of money and I know what kind of condition my regs are in.

Wthout knowing how to service and/or diagnos a problem with regulator, I think it is always the best option to have it serviced regularly by someone who is qualified to do so and is willing to accept the liability for something being wrong with the reg upon it's return to the customer . whether it be a shop and/or friend.

 

[CapitanBlack]

At home.

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

Sure, I can take them apart, clean up and put together. But I don't have spare parts that comes with service kits. Two of them were serviced 6 years ago. Plastic and rubber don't live forever...