Opinions on "downgrading" sidemount regulators

[grantmac]

XTX200 with hoses routed up would be worth a look.

 

[Valtman]

Hello,

A Mares regulator, at least the older models, have the advantage that they would not have any adjustment knobs and would offer equal breathing effort in all depths. However, the MR 22 has only one DFC port if I remember correctly, which offers low breathing effort. This restricts in part your setup-possibilities.

And yes, an Apeks might „free flow“ when tuned very lightly. I am not bothered by using the adjustment knob. But people differ. You could increase the cracking effort constantly by screwing in the adjustment screw, not the adjustment knob, by 1/8. You won´t notice the difference.

If I entangled the smb-line in the adjustment knob when diving sidemount, I would think about changing my deployment method instead of buying a new set of regs.

Do you mind to explain how the inflator hose „hurts“ you at the surface? Coming from the 5th port, the inflator hose runs „parallel“ to my chest.

Best wishes Jens

Hello!

I thought the DFC is a total marketing BS, delivering more gas than anyone could ever breath. The 1/2" thread on that port certainly makes no difference in real world. My secondary Abyss breathes almost as light as the primary and I thought it's the 2nd stage tuned so that it wouldn't free-flow, nothing to do with the port on the 1st stage. I don't know if the MR12 has any DFC built in - what ever that stands for - and I'm not too interested in that anyway. Even if Mares didn't breathe any better than Apeks I'd still be interested in making the setup more minimalistic.

I've deployed an SMB hundreds of times using the exhaled gas method and maybe five times I've "almost died". 5 - 10 meters and no deco, so most likely I would still be here even if the buoy took me all the way up, and every time I managed to get loose. I don't know how, obviously there's not much slack on the line... I need another SMB and I'm thinking getting one with the inflating tube, maybe install a spare inflator hose on one of the regs.

I've explained the "regs hurting my manboobs situation" above already.

None of the things mentioned is a deal breaker for Apeks, really very minor things. I'm not going to sell them immediately, I do need couple more regs anyway. Mostly I just want to see if I can make a lighter, slightly more comfortable, more simplistic setup. Tinkering with stuff or "equipment wanking" as I call it is of course the second best thing to do after actually using the equipment. If this plan works I then could buy yet couple more Mares and sell the Apeks.

 

[Valtman]

Why not just tune the apekses to where you want them?
Have used the lot of apekses from Tec3 to US4 to DSTs with the range of second stages on dives to 75 on open circuit and 100 as bail out regs on ccr. Calling this a depth issue is looking at the wrong problem.

Keep your DSMB out in front of you and it won't get entangled in your regs...

They are as nicely tuned as they can be. Next time going 50+ meters I will remember to turn that knob a little so they don't free-flow. But the thing is that over-balancing is stupid and I'd rather not worry about any adjustments on a dive. You've clearly done a lot with Apeks but have you tried Mares? If I hadn't I would not wish better performance from Apeks... And again these are really minor things, no real issues what so ever.

At the moment I only have a semi-closed SMB without the inflating tube thingy so it's really hard to exhale into it if it's out in front of me. I will get one with the tube thingy.

 

[Valtman]

XTX200 with hoses routed up would be worth a look.

Uhmmmm no. The FSR 1st stage is still over-balanced and about the same weight as a DST. Do you mean putting it sideways so the HP port points down? The reg hose would not have any swivel (long hose pointing down?) and the inflator hose would then need a 90 adapter. Looking at my "problem" the best Apeks solution would be DS4's or XL4's with swivels and weird SPG runs and *TX40's tuned to not free-flow at whatever maximum depth. I still think my plan is better.

Not to mention the FSR is about 4x the price of the MR12.

 

[grantmac]

You do you my dude!

I don't personally find swivels or 5th ports that important. Long hose gets routed down and inflators/short hose routed up. Then screw in the regs slightly tilted inwards, spgs aligned with the outer edge of the tanks.

That with my Poseidons. I run my DSTs in the usual way and see no difference in hose kinking or comfort.

 

[Valtman]

You do you my dude!

I don't personally find swivels or 5th ports that important. Long hose gets routed down and inflators/short hose routed up. Then screw in the regs slightly tilted inwards, spgs aligned with the outer edge of the tanks.

That with my Poseidons. I run my DSTs in the usual way and see no difference in hose kinking or comfort.

You are right in that you don't need the standard or optimal setup to dive sidemount. But since I already have the standard setup I'm not trying to build anything less optimal.

Since no-one has yet provided me any reason not to proceed with the plan I think I'll start sourcing the parts and post pictures on this thread once I have something to show. Might take a while.

Thanks to all for your input!


Have fun, don't die.
Valtteri

 

[Jens Bölte]

Hello

I thought the DFC is a total marketing BS, delivering more gas than anyone could ever breath

Every regulator delivers more air than anyone could ever breath.

DFC stand for Dynamic Flow Control. Everytime you inhale, the IP drops little bit before returning to it’s adjusted level. Dynamic Flow Control reduces this drop in IP. It is basically an extra hole drilled in the regulator that runs from the area under the diaphragm to the designated LP-port. It is one of the feature that Mares kept over the years and contributes to the breathing comfort experienced with Mares regulators. Can you live without it? Yes, you can but you are not using the full potential of your regulator.

The DFC LP-port comes in older models with a different diameter (1/2’) that the standard LP-port (3/8‘) or even a tube in the middle of the LP-port. So look out when buying an old Mares regulator how DFC is realized on this particular regulator.

BTW, one thing to consider are the service costs. Mares just raised its prize for service kits by quite a margin, at least here in Germany.

Best wishes Jens

 

[Valtman]

DFC stand for Dynamic Flow Control. Everytime you inhale, the IP drops little bit before returning to it’s adjusted level. Dynamic Flow Control reduces this drop in IP. It is basically an extra hole drilled in the regulator that runs from the area under the diaphragm to the designated LP-port. It is one of the feature that Mares kept over the years and contributes to the breathing comfort experienced with Mares regulators. Can you live without it? Yes, you can but you are not using the full potential of your regulator.

After studying the anatomy of DFC I did realize it's not BS.

I got the regs yesterday. Without weird hose routings my long hose would use the DFC port but not the short hose. I hope the difference isn't too dramatic. Now that I think of it I think on my backmount reg I have my secondary on the DFC port, not the primary. I put the secondary on a necklace, using the yellow hose for my primary. I swapped the 2nd stages (primary is tuned lighter) but I don't think I moved the hoses on the 1st stage. I do have a 1/2" - 3/8" adapter so I also may have swapped the ports. I'll have to check.

If my memory is correct the only difference in breathing comes from the tuning of the 2nd stage. That would again make DFC marketing BS. So hard to decide.

Or maybe the DFC plays a bigger role with higher gas densities...? My backmount reg has only seen shallowish water.

 

[lexvil]

Seems the classic equipment solution to a skills problem, maybe work on keeping the lines away from the reg.

But in the end if this is what works for you go for it.

 

[Valtman]

Seems the classic equipment solution to a skills problem, maybe work on keeping the lines away from the reg.

But in the end if this is what works for you go for it.

Again, none of the "problems" are real problems, just tiny things I wish to improve. I know how to deploy an SMB. Obviously I can't blame anyone or anything but myself for getting entangled so maybe it's a skill problem. **** happens, Murphy's law states it keeps happening regardless of my skills. If I knew what I did wrong maybe I could get my success rate from 99 % to 99,9 %...

I'm gonna fix this with an equipment solution. The simple equipment solution is an SMB with LPI tube so that it is possible to keep the line far away from the 2nd stage.

If I didn't enjoy the "equipment wanking" so much I wouldn't be building any regulators.