Regulator dilemma (first buy, new to diving) [scubapro] MK 25/19 evo (BT) G260 cb/S620 ti

[Mobulai]

I have the G260 and the S620Ti, it isn't just the Ti with the S620, it is the "WoB". It is "better" breather than the G260 based on using both on the same first stage and alternating breathing from them. Getting the MK25/S620Ti/S270 means that he is getting all great second stages with substantial discount as a package.

+1
I can’t comment on 250/260 vs 620 bit from experience, haven’t dived an S sr. Yet

But.. the 270 is a huge plus, it’s a balanced second stage, essentially a cheaper plastic 620 so that’s actually a plus.. vs the R series

I still have my own bias for the 260 since its a „full size“ case, and has a seat saver

The r105 is.. well unbalanced, so that can be a downside value wise

 

[Umuntu]

Sealing of first stages is becoming a interweb thing. There is not much reason to bother sealing a diaphagm first stage as the only thing exposed is a stainless steel spring, unless you insist on freezing your axx off in the coldest of water I see no need for sealing.

I agree in general, but in addition to cold water I would suggest a sealed first stage for silty water: Quarries, rivers, lakes etc.

 

[Umuntu]

Hi There,

I just got my Open water certificate a few weeks ago. Now I'm looking for some gear. I have so much dilemma's, there are so many options!

The gear I already invest in:
- TUSA Zensee mask
- TUSA Platina II Hyperdry
- Garmin Descent Mk3i 43mm

The next purchase I want to go for some regulators. Here I though I already decided for the Aqualung Leg3nd Elite set.
But then I spoke with my dive instructor who's a PADI Course Director, he told me to go for Scubapro, in his eye's it's one of the best brands.
Again I did a lot of research and read a lot of discussions at forum like these and lots of reviews and youtube.
I made a selection and there's the problem, I can't choose!

What is important to know, I don't care about the price, I like to have a high end regulator thats below €1.000,-
All I care about is that it breaths as good as possible and is durable and it won't fail me in the couple of years. (offcourse I'll service the Regs).
I'm not sure for the future what specialties and courses I will go for, but the regs need to be future proof, so I don't have to buy new stuff in the near future.
I'll dive a lot on holidays, liveaboard, day trips. (tropical). But also dive arround Europe and my home (the Netherlands) [cold].
For now I dive Single tank.

The regs i selected:
- MK 25 evo + S620 ti + S270 (recommended by my instructor)
- MK 19 evo BT + G260 CB + R105

I've read so many blogs and don't know it anymore.

The first dilemma: Should I go for a MK 25 evo or MK 19 evo?
And then Should I go for the BT version?

The 2nd dilemma: Should I go for the S620 ti or the G 260 Carbon

I think as I'm quite new to diving, I probaly won't notice any difference and also I know they are all good Regs. But there is no price difference here in my country.
There are a lot of shops, and all the Regs i can get below €940,-

So are there people who can help me choose and favor the one or the other? What the bennefits are? Which one you prefer? Pro's and Con's?
Also help me with the question do I need the BT and Carbon version?

Thank you in advance.

I see you are in the Netherlands … have you considered Apeks or Poseidon regulators ?

Lots of Scubapro fans on this site. I got rid of my MK25 because it breathed as noisy as Darth Vader behind my head. Not a good soundscape for videos.

As others have mentioned, piston regulators are in general not as good in cold or dirty water.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Unless you're diving in a slurry pit, i wouldn't be too worried about contamination. A good rinse should be part of the routine anyway.
And the biggest factor to prevent regulators from freezing, much more important than the design, is dry gas.
Even the best, sealed diaphragm reg can freeze if you feed it moist gas.

 

[Umuntu]

Unless you're diving in a slurry pit, i wouldn't be too worried about contamination. A good rinse should be part of the routine anyway.

Unfortunately even minor amounts of silt in the piston spring chamber can result in scratching of the internal surface of the spring chamber.

You will never have this issue with a diaphragm regulator, whether environmentally sealed or unsealed.

But environmental sealing is critical for a piston, and not just for ice. The floating garbage from muck to fine floaty coral sand just never quite disappears from the environmental chamber of a Scubapro Mk 25, and may in fact adhere to the tacky lube right next to the piston oring. You end up scratching the bejeezus out of the piston land, leading to eventual leaking of the reg.

 

[BoltSnap]

Unfortunately even minor amounts of silt in the piston spring chamber can result in scratching of the internal surface of the spring chamber.

You will never have this issue with a diaphragm regulator, whether environmentally sealed or unsealed.

Oooooo, so this why the mk25 first stage is the most popular SP first stage in the last 25 years in recreational AND technical diving?

 

[Umuntu]

Oooooo, so this why the mk25 first stage is the most popular SP first stage in the last 25 years in recreational AND technical diving?

Scubapro is an excellent marketing machine.

The Mk25 was my first regulator.

And after taking a regulator service tech course which involved disassembling and reassembling multiple different brands of regulators, I understood the advantages of diaphragm regulators. I now use Apeks US4, DS4, UST and DST mostly and some older Conshelf and Cousteau SEA first stages.

See below for pictures of MK25s with scratches on the piston land. The issue is not limited to Scubapro, other brands’ piston regulators have the same issue.

This stuff breaks my heart: dying regs, that are a lot younger than my Mk10, just because they aren't rinsed properly, or can't be environmentally sealed.

View attachment 413144View attachment 413145
The left one, a Mk 20, is pitted where the piston o-ring sat against the land, probably with accumulated salt crystals.
The right one has vertical scratches in the piston land where flecks of sand or coral were trapped between the o-ring and the wall of the reg, and moved up and down a few millimeters every time the reg was pressurized, and up and down a little less than that with every breath.

So sad!

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Oooooo, so this why the mk25 first stage is the most popular SP first stage in the last 25 years in recreational AND technical diving?

Nooo, you should get an Apeks MTX-RC 50 years limited special edition with a commemorative coin! It's also ribbed for your pleasure!
You can give me your old SP regs, i will dispose them for you

 

[Umuntu]

OP should consider reading the thread below: an older thread, but very informative.

Piston or diaphragm

What is your preference and why? Thanks in advance.

scubaboard.com

 

[Nemrod]

This interweb thing of the Mark V, 10, 15, 20, 25 getting internal scratches is a bunch of baloney. Maybe if you dive in a quartz slurry and never rinse the thing out. The Mark 25 is a rugged beast of a regulator with unsurpassed flow rates, exceptional responsiveness, durability and reliability and the 25 Evo is cold water rated.

And sealed diaphragms, another interweb thing. The only exposed part in a so called unsealed diaphragm is the spring which is stainless steel. It is true that a fully sealed piston or diaphragm, can be more cold tolerant. And then to adjust IP the cap has to be removed. Good Lord.

I have diaphragm regulators but I am a piston guy. Too many little parts, I would not a diaphragm is superior to a piston first in performance or durability.

What other company uses 30% glass fiber reinforced cases for their second stages? I am sure there are others but most are just molded ABS plastic. Scubapro innovates, everyone else copies, their 109 and G250 are the most copied second stages and their original Mark V and Mark 10 the most copied first stages, even Atomic is just a goo filled version of the Mark 10 piston. What other company has a record of supporting most products, not for just years but decades, of course to be supported for decades it has to be capable of lasting for decades.

OP, see what you did, now we are in a diaphragm vs piston and sealed vs unsealed wrestling match .