Regs for Doubles?

[ams511]

This is exactly why I would only buy 1st stages with a swivel turret and 5th LP port.

I would also specifically look for a swivel turret that will let you rotate it a full 360 degrees while there are hoses installed.

I have Dive Rite XT regs. They have a swivel turret and bottom LP port. But, when there are hoses installed in any of the turret ports, you cannot rotate it a full 360 degrees because the hose will hit the DIN hand wheel.

I regularly dive in cold, silty water. 37F degrees and sometimes visibility is less than 1 meter. I just bought ScubaPro Mk 25 EVO first stages to replace my DR XTs. They are unsealed piston regs and I am confident they will be just fine, even in cold silty water.

I am not a tech diver, but have followed the progression (or arguments) for years. This was before you got into diving. At one time the tech community was advocating using turretless first stages like the DS4 because they believed the turret was a failure point. I know in the past Scubapro had some problems with techs over-tightening the brass turret nut that caused them to fail but that was fixed when they went to a stainless nut. Perhaps this is where the thought came from. For a while Scubapro made regulators with a non-rotating turret like the Atomic Z2, I forget their model numbers.

At the same time, the thought was that you should have a low performing unbalanced second stage as your backup to reduce the chance of a freeflow.

These two recommendations have fallen out of favor. However, another recommendation that still remains is the use of sealed first stage regulator. As someone that collects (OK hoards) regulators I have come across a few MK-5 specs and older MK-20s that had junk in the ambient chamber. Whether this is due to poor rinsing or the fact that they couldn't get the junk out because of the small holes, I cannot say. What I can say it that they all worked properly even with the the junk inside.

As you know but the newbies don't, is that Scubaboard has a strong bias against unsealed piston first stages. The fact that they have been used successfully on thousands if not millions of dives does not seem to register with the collective conscience. Also the fact that most regulators will not see the inside of a cave or a wreck is also forgotten.

I am sure the MK-25s will do fine. My only grip against them is the cost.

 

[ams511]

The Halcyon second stage is an R390. A fine regulator, but cheaper than the G260 the OP specified.

Halcyon also sells a rebranded G-250 called the Halo which is cheaper that the G-260.

Source: Extreme Exposure

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Halcyon also sells a rebranded G-250 called the Halo which is cheaper that the G-260.

Source: Extreme Exposure

Yes, but that’s not the reg in the $1100 kit that was being used to make a price comparison. Nor is it what the OP specified.

 

[JohnnyC]

The Halcyon second stage is an R390. A fine regulator, but cheaper than the G260 the OP specified.

And proof positive that even a grossly overpriced version of a cheaper reg is more than adequate, considering those regs get used regularly on dives that are beyond anything you or Burhan or the OP is doing, or ever will do.

I get it, you like Atomic regs, but they are most certainly at a different price point than what the OP is looking for, and not nearly as good a value.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

And proof positive that even a grossly overpriced version of a cheaper reg is more than adequate, considering those regs get used regularly on dives that are beyond anything you or Burhan or the OP is doing, or ever will do.

I get it, you like Atomic regs, but they are most certainly at a different price point than what the OP is looking for, and not nearly as good a value.

I don’t own a single Atomic product of any kind. My point is that a $1400 Atomic is a reasonable alternative to a ~$1300 Scubapro. That’s it. I’m sorry it touched a nerve with you guys.

If I were him, I’d buy Deep6 simply for the price and parts availability. But if he doesn’t mind the cost (and apparently he doesn’t, as Scubapro was on the list), it’s a fair option to consider. And especially if he goes used. A doubles set of M1s just sold on here for less than $700, that would be a fantastic choice. But that’s all it is, another option to have in mind, just like all the other options that were listed and discussed.

 

[ams511]

I really don't understand why people need to argue on Scubaboard, it does not help the OP at all. Atomics are in the same price range (granted at the high-end of the range) as either the Apeks or Scubapro regulators. In an apples-to-apples comparison an Atomic M1 is no more expensive than a SP G260/MK-25. I think we all agree that all these regulators are overpriced, at least in the US.

I think we also agree that the Hog or Deep6 are a better value. Especially when purchased in a package where the OP gets the correct hose lengths, gauges, and bolt snaps.

 

[stuartv]

Also, the OP mentioned the ScubaPro Mk 17 setup specifically because he already has one and would only have to buy one more. For all the others, he would have to buy a double set.

I think some folks that are recommending other high-priced setups (e.g. Atomic or other SP models) may have missed sight of this fact. The OP is NOT looking at spending the kind of money that a doubles set of Atomics or a doubles set of ScubaPro would cost. He mentioned Apeks, but, as he is in Malaysia, apparently, the Apeks kit would not be at the same price point as Atomic or ScubaPro.

Unless I missed something....

 

[ams511]

Are those regulators (more concerned with the D3 and Deep6) all similar in terms of quality and reliability?
Reason for asking was that I read a few Chinese blogs about HOGs leaking or coming apart on tech dives. Conclusion was (if I recall correctly) that these manufacturers still have issues with QC, with some batches inclined to be problematic. These regs were supposedly purchased in the US on a trip, so they discounted the possibility of fakes.
Do you think such concerns for the D3 are valid?

As Deep 6 is similar in to HOG (relatively new with similar ideals), are there such known issues? Only issues I read about Deep6 was that the din o ring tends to fall out, and that they had already rectified the issue. Also, does the Deep6 regs have the 5th port upgrade if I were to use them for sidemount in the future?

As for Apeks, I would consider it if a seriously good deal comes by since the reputation and resale value is hard to beat.
However, any idea how difficult is it get training for servicing Apeks regs? Or is it that anyone experienced in maintaining balanced diaphragm regs would be able to teach me about that?

As for the SP Mk17, I probably will leave it to my single tank diving for now cause it's neither cheap nor offer any advantages not available to other brands (swivel turret, 5th port, routing etc)

I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

Hog, Dive Rite, Deep6, and some others are all made by Ocean Divers Supply in Taiwan. I do not know if they are made in Taiwan or the PRC. Every manufacturer has problems from time to time there is a current thread on chrome plating flaking off on Atomic regulators. I have heard of QC issues on the older HOG regulators but not on the newer ones. I haven't heard anything bad about Deep6.

The HOG D3, Dive Rite XT, and Deep6 all have the 5th port. The first HOG D1s did not and needed the upgrade kit. Latter D1s had the 5th port.

Apeks does not offer service classes to end-user divers. You would need to get training from a LDS, a mentor, or by looking online. There is a flash presentation on how to service Apeks regulators and the manuals and schematics are not hard to find. As well as YouTube videos. You may want to look into the older ATX series regulators as they offer similar performance at a lower cost. The downside is that they are paired with a DS4 and you cannot reverse the hose routing on the second stages like on the XTX.

One thing to remember about Deep6 is that there are 2 versions of the regulators. The first is sold by Deep6 themselves and the second is sold by Dive Gear Express. I have not seen either in person so I can only speculate (i.e take this with a grain of salt). The first stages on the DGX versions look like black HOG D1 whereas the Deep6 version look different. From the Deep6 website it appears the turret can rotate a full 360 while I don't think the DGX version can. Second, I remember Chris mentioning that the Deep6 version of the second stage uses different higher quality materials. Also the Deep6 version ships with service kits and a storage case while the DGX version does not. If you have questions you may want to post to the Deep6 manufacturers forum.

 

[BoltSnap]

we also agree that the Hog or Deep6 are a better value

Who is this "we" stuff? I don't agree and many others don't agree. YOu know what they say about "assuming"
(no, I am not arguing, just pointing out facts and making corrections).

Just curious, How long have D6 regulators been out in the field and how many of them have been sold to make such statements and comparisons with other much more established vendors that have sold MANY more units than D6 and even HOG combined?

I personally firmly believe that the Atomic regulators are the best value/quality/reliability/performance overall regulators out there with SP coming second when compared to the other brands I have used personally or in my dive center/school over the last couple of decades (Poseidon, Sherwood, Mares, Cressi, AL, SEACSub, Beuchat, etc. but not including D6 or HOG). If I didn't have access to Atomic or SP, I'd use AL. This is what works for me and is my opinion based on my experience and observation.

 

[tbone1004]

@ams511 Dive Rite is no longer made by ODS. The XT series is made by WMD. You can easily find ATX50's with DST's, downside is the DST may have the 1/2" regulator port which requires a weird hose or adapter if you want to use it.
DGX versions of Deep6 regs are for all intents and purposes completely different regulators to the Signature series. HOG D1 vs D3 type of changes, major major difference. Those regs do not represent good value unless you're trying to get out as cheap as possible, especially with the free parts kits and service options with Deep6.

@stuartv he said he can get a single mk17 first stage for $450 or a used full set of Apeks for $650. That's a no brainer...