Regs for Doubles?

[Random Dude]

Thank you all for weighing in!
Just would like to ask a few more questions

Are those regulators (more concerned with the D3 and Deep6) all similar in terms of quality and reliability?
Reason for asking was that I read a few Chinese blogs about HOGs leaking or coming apart on tech dives. Conclusion was (if I recall correctly) that these manufacturers still have issues with QC, with some batches inclined to be problematic. These regs were supposedly purchased in the US on a trip, so they discounted the possibility of fakes.
Do you think such concerns for the D3 are valid?

As Deep 6 is similar in to HOG (relatively new with similar ideals), are there such known issues? Only issues I read about Deep6 was that the din o ring tends to fall out, and that they had already rectified the issue. Also, does the Deep6 regs have the 5th port upgrade if I were to use them for sidemount in the future?

As for Apeks, I would consider it if a seriously good deal comes by since the reputation and resale value is hard to beat.
However, any idea how difficult is it get training for servicing Apeks regs? Or is it that anyone experienced in maintaining balanced diaphragm regs would be able to teach me about that?

@BurhanMuntasser Thanks for pointing out Atomic regs as well. Didn't really consider them before since I haven't really seen it around my LDSs. Went through their website and saw that they had quite some nice features, so might well keep an eye out for them too. Btw, is the M1 similar to the Z2/Z3?

As for the SP Mk17, I probably will leave it to my single tank diving for now cause it's neither cheap nor offer any advantages not available to other brands (swivel turret, 5th port, routing etc)

 

[BoltSnap]

@BurhanMuntasser Thanks for pointing out Atomic regs as well. Didn't really consider them before since I haven't really seen it around my LDSs.

You are most welcome!

Btw, is the M1 similar to the Z2/Z3?

All of Atomic regulators have the same design and performance specificiation when they are tuned to factory specifications, they only differ in some of the material used in their different models depending on cost and intended use. The M1 is made specifically for technical and cold water diving and is 80 - 100% O2 compatible out of the box. The Z2 and the Z3 are exactly the same in all aspects except that the Z3 has the grossly overpriced second stage hose with the Atomic proprietary integrated second stage swivel. I would get the Z2 and pass their swivel and buy 3rd party swivel (Omniswivel or 120 deg. swivel) instead. The M1 doesn't have a second stage hose swivel but you can add one from a 3rd party. Although you can buy any of their regulators as sealed first stages, some come sealed anyways and other models it is an option, the M1 is sealed out of the box by default. In Europe, they only sell the sealed versions of all of their first stages.

Good luck in your quest!!

 

[teknitroxdiver]

One small difference on the M1 (which is probably irrelevant to you) is the ability to use a ‘cave ring’ kit which allows easy disassembly of the second stage underwater. That’s really only useful for people doing cave diving in very silty conditions.

 

[runsongas]

It isn't difficult to learn how to service apeks and the hog/deep 6 service courses will have significant similarities. But you have to be a shop employee for an apeks dealer to get the manufacturer training.

 

[admikar]

As for Apeks, I would consider it if a seriously good deal comes by since the reputation and resale value is hard to beat.
However, any idea how difficult is it get training for servicing Apeks regs? Or is it that anyone experienced in maintaining balanced diaphragm regs would be able to teach me about that?

It isn't difficult to learn how to service apeks and the hog/deep 6 service courses will have significant similarities. But you have to be a shop employee for an apeks dealer to get the manufacturer training.

Nope. Just finished my training in Croatia (EU member), no one asked about my affiliations, in fact, out of 11 people, only 2 have relations to shops. Rest of us were "self service" gaggle.
Licence is valid for two years, after that you need to re-validate, which is stupid IMO, but it is what it is. @Melvin Moi Kai Sen, you can learn it yourself, just following service manuals, manuals are good and regs are simple. Of course, I am not saying you should do it yourself, just how easy it is. You need C spanner, o ring pick, moment wrench, some hex keys, some spanners, suitable flat head screwdriver(although inline adjusting tool is really helpful), grease and you're good to go. There are some special tools to make your life easier, but you can do without those.
All this said, I have no idea about training availability in your region.

 

[stuartv]

More to the point:
DS4 / MK-17 Routing

View attachment 452833


MK-25, HOG, Atomic, Deep6, DST w/5th port

View attachment 452834

This is exactly why I would only buy 1st stages with a swivel turret and 5th LP port.

I would also specifically look for a swivel turret that will let you rotate it a full 360 degrees while there are hoses installed.

I have Dive Rite XT regs. They have a swivel turret and bottom LP port. But, when there are hoses installed in any of the turret ports, you cannot rotate it a full 360 degrees because the hose will hit the DIN hand wheel.

I regularly dive in cold, silty water. 37F degrees and sometimes visibility is less than 1 meter. I just bought ScubaPro Mk 25 EVO first stages to replace my DR XTs. They are unsealed piston regs and I am confident they will be just fine, even in cold silty water.

 

[JohnnyC]

You're looking at $1400 for an Atomic M1 doubles setup. I guarantee you would not be able to tell the difference in a blind "taste" test between the Atomic and the Scubapros, Hogs, or especially the Deep6. Which you'd get for less than $1000, including first set of parts free. So no, they're not in the same ballpark for price, you're only going to be able to tell the difference on a breathing machine, and the whole "2 years until you have to service" thing is bull. Just like yearly service is bull. I have regs I haven't serviced in 6 years that are just as fine as the day I bought them. Know what to look for, and do preventative maintenance when they need them.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

You're looking at $1400 for an Atomic M1 doubles setup. I guarantee you would not be able to tell the difference in a blind "taste" test between the Atomic and the Scubapros, Hogs, or especially the Deep6. Which you'd get for less than $1000, including first set of parts free. So no, they're not in the same ballpark for price

$1400 is right around what either a Mk17/G260 or Apeks XTX would cost. So yes, among the high-end options he listed, it is in the ballpark. It’s okay if you hate Atomic, but price isn’t a great reason in this scenario.

 

[JohnnyC]

I've never paid close to that for a set of Apeks DST/XTX's. I think I paid $1050 max for a set of DST doubles regs, and that was a pressing need. I don't buy Scubapro, but you can get the Halcyon Scubapro regs for less than $1100 on DRIS.

So no, not in the same "ballpark. $300 (on the low end, I've seen even higher pricing for them) isn't an insignificant difference for the lack of substantial performance increase. $300 will get you a lot of gas fills. Especially starting out in technical diving before you start looking at adding helium.

I don't hate Atomic. They're fine regulators. I've used them before, and probably will again. However I would never buy them for myself unless the price was more reasonable. Their performance just doesn't justify purchasing them over any of the other regulators mentioned considering the cost is markedly higher.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

I've never paid close to that for a set of Apeks DST/XTX's. I think I paid $1050 max for a set of DST doubles regs, and that was a pressing need. I don't buy Scubapro, but you can get the Halcyon Scubapro regs for less than $1100 on DRIS.

So no, not in the same "ballpark. $300 (on the low end, I've seen even higher pricing for them) isn't an insignificant difference for the lack of substantial performance increase. $300 will get you a lot of gas fills. Especially starting out in technical diving before you start looking at adding helium.

I don't hate Atomic. They're fine regulators. I've used them before, and probably will again. However I would never buy them for myself unless the price was more reasonable. Their performance just doesn't justify purchasing them over any of the other regulators mentioned considering the cost is markedly higher.

The Halcyon second stage is an R390. A fine regulator, but cheaper than the G260 the OP specified.