Refunds for Students who Can't pass O/W?

[Manfred]

Our dive center doesn't give refunds, but they will let you repeat the class free. If there is any hope maybe even more,although that never happened yet. People either pass after the second try or give up.
The money is for the course not the certification.

 

[chris3536]

I think no refunds should be given, however, I think any quality business would try help the customer in a positive way. For instance, offer the student a chance to attend you next group lesson at no charge.

 

[bakpakka]

Isn't PADI supposed to be based on prescribed learning, where you actually learn till you make it? You don't "fail" per se, but just keep doing it till you make it, right?

Not everyone makes it on their first time (Phew, I did!), but hey, you just gotta guide them till they make it. That's the mark of a good instructor, I reckon. You don't just write them off.

I reckon an instructor with zero failures is better than one who makes tons of cash, and has lotsa failures.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Manfred once bubbled...
Our dive center doesn't give refunds, but they will let you repeat the class free. If there is any hope maybe even more,although that never happened yet. People either pass after the second try or give up.
The money is for the course not the certification.

Same policy at my shop.

We will keep working with a student until they give up or it becomes obvious that they are not going to pass.

By the time that happens, however, we have spent far more than the allotted time with that student. Unless the student refuses, we've provided some private sessions with an instructor and assigned them a one-on-one assistant during group sessions. Accordingly, there is no refund.

This makes sense. The student is paying for time and materials. They have received both.

 

[H2OHead]

The diving class that offers a money back guarantee is just punching tickets anyway. The college course analogy is right on. We don’t give your kid a refund if he can’t grasp university physics. We give him the option to quit in the very beginning and get some money back, but we never spend a semester watching him fail and then write him a check for being there. I don’t see why diving classes should be any different. If a diving instructor agrees to teach a person; the cost is for the instruction and any materials. The ability to pass a written test or perform a skill is all on the individual. Additional time SHOULD cost more money, but it’s been my experience that it doesn’t. I think the majority of diving professionals are overly fair and already give the customer a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[divemed06]

Here in Ottawa, all dive shops (except for 1 I believe) will keep working with the student untill he or she attains the standards for certification at no extra charge. I personnally believe that you pay for the training but not for the actual certification. Furthermore, it is the instructor's/LDS' responsibility to make sure that their students are aware that the possibility exists, although unlikely, that they may not complete the course; no matter how hard they try .

 

[jhelmuth]

IMHO, no refund. But you would be a super human-being if you do give her the chance to come up to stds. on her own time and additional expense (if any is actually incurred) without additional training fees. Now the hard part - how do you do that? If I were in the same circumstance, I'd really try to help her, but not to the point of distraction and over-bearing expense on my part. Maybe we all need to think in terms of college - it aint for everybody!

 

[RichLockyer]

Walter once bubbled...
You don't have be able to kick strong enough to keep your head above water to orally inflate your BC.

Excellent point. If the diver is truly OOA, then their tank in at it's most positive (more positive than when at 500psi). If the student is properly weighted, they should have to kick to remain submerged... not to remain on the surface... with the BC completely empty.

 

[RichLockyer]

GQMedic once bubbled...
Just cycler her through another class. She's already paid. It's not like you're creating a one on one private lesson for her where your losing money.

Bet she'd return for my advanced class and so on, having persisted with her.

I'm with Dennis on this one. She signed up because she wants to learn how to dive, and it is the instructor's responsibility to put forth every REASONABLE effort to accomplish this goal.
Given how easy it is to learn the basic skills, I would not write off a student until after they've failed at one or two followup classes.

In most cases that I've read about, it's mask and reg clearing that cause the most problems, and many instructors volunteer an evening or two for a one-on-one pool session to help with things like this. One of my Sport Chalet instructors was really good about that, and even spent the better part of a week with an AOW student who really needed a refresher course prior to taking AOW. He completed AOW and has been an active diver for several years now and has had no problems. This won't work if you have to pay for pool time unless the student is willing to cover that.

Still... If it is obvious that she is not going to pass the first time, I'd cancel her reservation on the boat trip for the final checkout dives and either refund that portion, or move the reservation out to the next class.

 

[James connell]

Walter once bubbled...
"Which training agency requires their students to be able to kick strongly enough to be able to orally inflate their BCD:s?"

i agree - but have a questin is she unable to keep her head above before or after she drops her weights? and is she doing this with a full or empty bottle. sounds more like she's over weighted so you can get her down - is it any suprize she can't stay on the surface??