Dive instruction, quality verse cost

[Marie13]

@Marie
Did you perhaps take your original OW from that shop that used to bring that 3 bedroom RV out to Haigh?
(Only one in the area that I knew was doing Groupons in the past, at what I would describe as predatory prices.)

Oh, hell, no. I've taken all my classes through DRIS (except for Intro to Tech and VIP). You must mean the shop with the ratty purple motorhome. They still haul that parking spot hogging thing out to Haigh. They're the Groupon people. Massive classes. $250 for a class, last time I looked. I try to steer people away from them.

 

[aviator8]

Taught some extra skills - I don't know why you say that, unless you are basing it on your own older class

yes based on the PADI course I took 10 years ago. the course I took in college was far more extensive than just OW.

Variability of price by region - totally different cost structures at play.

I understand this, but at these differences in price I can drive down to Florida easily if I can get better instruction.

Variability of price within the same region

Yep I fully understand not all prices are apples to apples so I clear all those details up with each shop so I can compare

If you are overall happy with your current LDS except for your reservations on pricing

I have other beefs with them besides just prices, so I am pretty much done with them. Its a shame because the instructor was good. I would like an instructor that insists on perfecting buoyancy and trim first. The current model seems to be get them certified, then if you get frustrated enough with Buoyancy and trim I have a class you can buy to correct that. IMHO that should be part of any OW course.

Or else add the cost of transportation into your math, and see if you still think Roatan is a bargain...

My cost comparison differs from many. I can get to a Caribbean island for free in most cases. So it is just a place to stay and food. If I go to central America that can be cheap. So I look at is as, instead of tie up three weekends and dive in a low vis lake I could have taken her to a destination and had a cool place to dive and a vacation. This is exactly what I tried to do at first but we got sick. Don't get me wrong I am I paid for this and knew the prices. I hoped that the instruction would be more than it was, and really just wanted to get through it so we can go dive. Now that's done we will eventually do more training, and I want to find really good instructor(s) I can work with.

 

[michael-fisch]

An openwater certification is nothing more than a brand new drivers license. It enables you to tag along on easy dives and gain experience. 20 hours later you should start getting a hang for your trim and buoyancy, which will get better over time - a peak performance buoyancy course can help but neither your buoyancy or your performace will be unimprovable after the course.

At 100 hours I thought I was very good and wanted to start teaching, luckily others convinced me that I still had lots to learn.
At 1000 hours I felt that I was usually the best diver at most locations that I was diving at.
At 1500 hours I saw young kids diving much better than I was, while taking a zero to hero 8 day Cave diver course in Florida.
Now 20 odd years later I just did a CCR crossover course (after diving that rebreather for almost 2 years) with the IANTD franchise owner in Germany and found out that he is better than I am.

So you'll probably never stop learning and it would be a shame if you did.

Michael

 

[Graeme Fraser]

An openwater certification is nothing more than a brand new drivers license. It enables you to tag along on easy dives and gain experience. 20 hours later you should start getting a hang for your trim and buoyancy, which will get better over time - a peak performance buoyancy course can help but neither your buoyancy or your performace will be unimprovable after the course.

At 100 hours I thought I was very good and wanted to start teaching, luckily others convinced me that I still had lots to learn.
At 1000 hours I felt that I was usually the best diver at most locations that I was diving at.
At 1500 hours I saw young kids diving much better than I was, while taking a zero to hero 8 day Cave diver course in Florida.
Now 20 odd years later I just did a CCR crossover course (after diving that rebreather for almost 2 years) with the IANTD franchise owner in Germany and found out that he is better than I am.

So you'll probably never stop learning and it would be a shame if you did.

Michael

Amen to that!

 

[aviator8]

An openwater certification is nothing more than a brand new drivers license. It enables you to tag along on easy dives and gain experience. 20 hours later you should start getting a hang for your trim and buoyancy, which will get better over time - a peak performance buoyancy course can help but neither your buoyancy or your performace will be unimprovable after the course.

At 100 hours I thought I was very good and wanted to start teaching, luckily others convinced me that I still had lots to learn.
At 1000 hours I felt that I was usually the best diver at most locations that I was diving at.
At 1500 hours I saw young kids diving much better than I was, while taking a zero to hero 8 day Cave diver course in Florida.
Now 20 odd years later I just did a CCR crossover course (after diving that rebreather for almost 2 years) with the IANTD franchise owner in Germany and found out that he is better than I am.

So you'll probably never stop learning and it would be a shame if you did.

Michael

Thanks for that perspective Michael. You are right I never want to stop learning and there isn’t some end state that I am seeking for my daughter and myself.

I guess my real point to the post was to asks broader audience if they felt the same as I did in terms of price. For an OW group class with check dives in a local lake we paid $850 when I add in the course materials we already purchased. I don’t feel that price was very good.

Secondly I wanted to seek out recommendations for instructors that are known to go above minimum standards and have a strong reputation for teaching students to be top notch divers and helping master skills.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

Wow....that's expensive no matter what agency you're getting her certified through! My LDS switched to SDI at the end of last year and our OW class, including gear rental (all new 2-months old) for the checkout dives runs $250 in the peak season and $199 in the fall & winter months. Add in expenses for your personal gear (mask snorkel fins and booties), about $75 for course materials and then about $70 for the lake weekend ($20/day entry fee and $10 air fills x3) and in total you might be at $600-$700. If you want you can even add in maybe $15-$20 tip for the DM at the lake. And because it's SDI, the gear rental also includes use of a dive computer (Mares Puck or Cosmiq DeepBlu). Also included in that price is a hard card that can be printed there at the shop as soon as all the paperwork is turned in. So how an OW class gets to be $900+ is beyond me unless you're doing private instruction. I mean in comparison to the lifetime of memories you will make and the incredible experiences you'll have it's a drop in the bucket but still.....WOW.

 

[michael-fisch]

Most OW instructors working through a shop make about $50 a student for an OW course - 4-5 2 hour pool sessions, 5 90minute classroom sessions, and 4 OW dives + a snorkel swim that needs to be supervised.
Not sure that the classroom rental, pool rent, entry fees to a lake or quarry, 4 tank fills, 2 days of gear rental divemaster and certification fees is worth $800. If it is, your instructor had to be one of the very best.

Michael

 

[ofg-1]

What makes you believe that there is any correlation between costs and quality?

 

[michael-fisch]

What makes you believe that there is any correlation between costs and quality?

Do a course with Jarrad Jablonski, you will be pleasntly suprised just how good instruction can be and come to the conclusion that he is worth what he charges.

Michael

 

[aviator8]

Most OW instructors working through a shop make about $50 a student for an OW course - 4-5 2 hour pool sessions, 5 90minute classroom sessions, and 4 OW dives + a snorkel swim that needs to be supervised.
Not sure that the classroom rental, pool rent, entry fees to a lake or quarry, 4 tank fills, 2 days of gear rental divemaster and certification fees is worth $800. If it is, your instructor had to be one of the very best.

Michael

And that's what I thought. The instructor was good, but not the best. The difference is the shop adding on profit, and basically gouging from what I can tell. Don't take me wrong, I paid it, I went in with eyes wide open so I didn't come here to belly ache. I did it out of convenience and to get it done since two other cert attempts did not work out for different reasons. This all kind of validates what I felt. Now I need to find really good instructors, and I prefer to go directly to independent instructors rather than pay markups to a shop like this where I don't feel like I am getting much for it.