Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[Nemrod]

Not sure that I follow you, you have to two contradictory statements here. On one had you say that you shouldn't use gear for emergencies and stay shallow or close to your buddy and on the other hand, you say that you carry redundant air with you and that "no one is going to save you" implying that you don't/can't depend on your buddy. What are you stating here please?

He is a fence sitter like me, could go either way. If non-participatory buddy diving a pony might make sense. Seems the poster is saying he buddy dives but neither he or his buddy participates in the buddy system . Thus justifying a redundant air supply and the additional equipment.

N

 

[Celt]

Pony is for redundancy, and should not be in the plan. It is for emergencies. If you are adding it to your plan, then it is not a pony, it would be a deco or stage bottle.

What emergency are you talking about exactly.

 

[Celt]

He is a fence sitter like me, could go either way. If non-participatory buddy diving a pony might make sense. Seems the poster is saying he buddy dives but neither he or his buddy participates in the buddy system . Thus justifying a redundant air supply and the additional equipment.
Who is he.

 

[Nemrod]

What emergency are you talking about exactly.

An auxiliary bottle or so called pony bottle (because it used to be strapped to the main cylinder, but now often slung) is not considered part of the dive gas plan. It is not to be used to extend a dive or any other use than to get the diver to the surface in the event of an emergency such as total back gas failure and since this is a recreational diver forum, not technical, this would likely be a diver on a single tank. The pony is sized to get the diver to the surface considering depth or other considerations in a non-overhead, no-deco recreational dive.

SDI in their solo text also states the same regarding pony bottles, the redundant air supply is not to be counted as a part of the gas plan. Using the pony bottle to extend a dive or other use defeats the purpose.

James

 

[jadairiii]

And what do you do if you run low our out and no gas station within your remaining gas range?

This is way people run out of air also. Poor planning, it wasn't an accident that caused you to be in a location without a gas station.

 

[Celt]

An auxiliary bottle or so called pony bottle (because it used to be strapped to the main cylinder, but now often slung) is not considered part of the dive gas plan. It is not to be used to extend a dive or any other use than to get the diver to the surface in the event of an emergency such as total back gas failure and since this is a recreational diver forum, not technical, this would likely be a diver on a single tank. The pony is sized to get the diver to the surface considering depth or other considerations in a non-overhead, no-deco recreational dive.

SDI in their solo text also states the same regarding pony bottles, the redundant air supply is not to be counted as a part of the gas plan. Using the pony bottle to extend a dive or other use defeats the purpose.

James

There’s no such thing as total gas failure ( instant) it’s a myth.

 

[Nemrod]

There’s no such thing as total gas failure ( instant) it’s a myth.

And I did not say there is. Thus 36 pages long thread on pony bottles to provide redundancy for what you say cannot happen. Apparently others do not agree.

Running out of air is a total failure , on multiple levels. And the one time I ran out of air, some 40 or more years ago, my Tekna T2100 supplied air to the last breath and I was preoccupied to notice any difference until there was no air. My wife came to my aid, we buddy breathed from 90 feet to 30 feet where I let her go and did an easy ascent on my on. Yes, it was before octopus regulators were in common usage, we buddy breathed.

James

 

[tursiops]

There’s no such thing as total gas failure ( instant) it’s a myth.

LOL. Keep on believing that. Maybe you'll be lucky.

 

[Lorenzoid]

He is a fence sitter like me, could go either way. If non-participatory buddy diving a pony might make sense. Seems the poster is saying he buddy dives but neither he or his buddy participates in the buddy system . Thus justifying a redundant air supply and the additional equipment.

N

"Non-participatory buddy diving"--I love it! Or not.

To reiterate my thoughts on that for those who haven't read that other thread that apparently inspired this one, in my opinion those dives should be treated as solo dives from the get-go. Learn whatever it is that constitutes solo diving, plan the dive as a solo dive, and yes, if that means taking a pony, take a pony. If you have a friend in the water, they too should be solo diving. But don't make up some gray area of diving and sort of take a pony because it sort of feels reassuring. (Though this thread has gone way beyond what the original poster in the other thread was asking, I think that was the gist of it--a rank beginner thinking of taking a pony as a security blanket.) Figure out what kind of dive this is, take the gear you trained on to do that kind of dive, and plan and execute it accordingly. If it's a beginner-level dive, make the effort to find a buddy who adheres to training (which nowadays often includes more attention to gas planning, even "rock bottom" aka "minimum gas" if you want to get all DIR about it) and enjoy the freedom of that kind of diving.

 

[Wibble]

An auxiliary bottle or so called pony bottle (because it used to be strapped to the main cylinder, but now often slung) is not considered part of the dive gas plan.

To be a pedant (moi?), you need to plan that the Pony contains sufficient gas to get you out of trouble. Meaning you plan to need it when all else fails at the worst possible time. Therefore the the deepest point and you've a "safety stop" to do (not deco, oh no). You will be stressed so need to use a stressed SAC and allow a minute or two to sort your act out.

A 3 litre pony with 400 litres of gas isn't much if you're sucking gas as the adrenaline kicks in. SAC of 25 litres/min = 100 litres per minute at 30m...

You're right that this isn't part of the primary gas plan, just the backup -- bailout? -- gas plan.