Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[elan]

I do not think its related to the ascent rate itself. I believe its just a s formula to calculate MG. The accent rates are the same as before.

 

[Ayisha]

I do not think its related to the ascent rate itself. I believe its just a s formula to calculate MG. The accent rates are the same as before.

I believe you're right. I think the ascent rates are still the same: 30 ft/min to half depth, and then 10 ft/minute to the surface.

But I guess the MG formula has changed/is changing.

 

[elan]

I believe you're right. I think the ascent rates are still the same: 30 ft/min to half depth, and then 10 ft/minute to the surface.

But I guess the MG formula has changed/is changing.

Yes it has changed, I was checking the materials a couple of months ago. I suspect they did it to simplify the calculations across the levels.

 

[CT-Rich]

See? This is the proper way to troll… I brought up one hot button, ridiculously long ascent rates and minimum gas management and we are totally off to the races all over again… Importantly, no one is pissed at me….

A litany of character assassinating posts that would eventually get the thread closed down suddenly becomes three pages of GUE ascent philosophy and no one ever blames me for being the troll…. LMAO…

We don’t (I don’t) hate you. I find you mildly annoying ’cause you make sweeping generalizations based on your LIMITED perspective. You have made some pretty dumb assertions in this thread as if you know more about it than anyone else here. Asserting you are “building communities” and “challenging the status quo” are both hyperbolic and more about ego than diving… LMFAO. Do you wear a red nose while beating the classroom portion of minimum gas calculation into their hides?

I won’t bother with you accreditation because I have just two, NAUI SCUBA DIVER and Nitrox. I did find it funny as **** when you were saying an emergency ascent should take eight minutes from 90 FSW (or some similarly weird assertion, I am too lazy to look it up…). There are a ton of places in the world where ponies are SOP for all divers and just as many where I would be embarrassed to be carrying one. The wearing doubles instead of a pony argument was also hilarious because you never f*cking realized a PONY IS A DOUBLE, except one of them is much smaller…

To hate you would require me to care about your opinions first. Therefore you would need to impress me first, arguing that minimum gas calculations prove you are right in stating a OW shouldn’t NEED a pony assumes anyone certified to dive only above 60’ would A) know how to make those calculations and B) be doing that level of planning when they are probably relying on a dive guide or buddy to remind them which direction the valve stem should be pointing when they are assembling their gear.

If you want to create along thread discussion about a diving practice AND not have a bunch of people decide you are a blow hard, you can. Say something like “hey does anyone dive with an analog depth gauge on their console?” It’s the internet, within an hour people will be ripping each other a new a**hole and not disparaging you. It might not get to be a hundred pages, but it will be lively and you will not get the reputation of a troll.

 

[elan]

See? This is the proper way to troll… I brought up one hot button, ridiculously long ascent rates and minimum gas management and we are totally off to the races all over again… Importantly, no one is pissed at me….

A litany of character assassinating posts that would eventually get the thread closed down suddenly becomes three pages of GUE ascent philosophy and no one ever blames me for being the troll…. LMAO…

Being Canadians, Ayisha and I are too polite to blame you for trolling, eh !

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yes it has changed, I was checking the materials a couple of months ago. I suspect they did it to simplify the calculations across the levels.

There’s a thread from 2-3 years ago in which the change was discussed. An instructor chimed in to explain the simplification. I learned of it there, and then got a review of it when I did a Fundies tech upgrade.

 

[Ayisha]

There’s a thread from 2-3 years ago in which the change was discussed. An instructor chimed in to explain the simplification. I learned of it there, and then got a review of it when I did a Fundies tech upgrade.

Yes, this one. John K and Mer were very helpful. Thanks for reminding us. So it is just CAT and the ascent rate remains the same.

CAT Calculation for GUE Fundies

 

[ginti]

Thanks @Ayisha and @Lorenzoid, I was not aware of that post

EDIT:
@tursiops, apparently, I am calculating my minimum gas wrong; see these posts of Jhon Kendall:

CAT calculation for GUE Fundies

10 minute ascent from 100 fsw ? When calculating minimum gas, Yes. It is calculated assuming that you will ascend no slower than 10' per min. For a normal ascent, we would ascend at 30' per min to half max depth, and then 10' per min from there. HTH John

scubaboard.com

CAT calculation for GUE Fundies

10 minute ascent from 100 fsw ? When calculating minimum gas, Yes. It is calculated assuming that you will ascend no slower than 10' per min. For a normal ascent, we would ascend at 30' per min to half max depth, and then 10' per min from there. HTH John

scubaboard.com

Shame on me

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread is again open for input. The topic is clearly a subject of some controversy. The four pages of bickerbattle that have disappeared were, one might say, "Not On Topic." Let us all try to stay on topic. Whether we personally like or dislike a member we respond to, let us stay polite. Thank you.
The Moderators

---

 

[Ayisha]

...apparently, I am calculating my minimum gas wrong; see these posts of Jhon Kendall:

It isn't wrong if that's what you were taught. I also did Fundies before CAT was introduced.

If you do the calculations, the end result for MG is very similar. It's just an easier way to do the calculations across cert levels - once we get the hang of it.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

To @boulderjohn's point, I'm also not sure I understand the justification for all the effort put into MG calculations with various stops for recreational NDL diving. After all, recreational diving IS the topic of this thread. For technical diving I get it. Been there, done that many times. I used to do some technical diving myself up through trimix.

But by its very nature, recreational NDL diving allows for an immediate ascent to the surface in an emergency at a safe rate of ascent of, let's say, 30 FPM. That is the very definition of recreational diving.

In an actual emergency, why would I make various stops including a final safety stop? If not, why all the time and effort to include all of that in the gas plan for every dive?