Rebreathers (CCR) What Recreational divers need to know

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

bowlofpetunias

Oh no, not again!
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
12,685
Reaction score
6,162
Location
Sydney Australia
# of dives
500 - 999
For our own safety Recreational divers simply need to know about CCR. We have the potential of diving with a CCR diver either as a buddy or on the same dive. What are the things a open circuit scuba diver needs to know about closed circuit systems for our sake and the sake of the CCR divers?

They are getting much more common and unfortunately not all buddies do good buddy checks. It is possible this person isn't our buddy but may need our help or vice versa.

There are some obvious issues like.. how or even can they assist a diver who is OOA? what do we look for to tell if they are carrying a bail out? There may be questions that aren't so obvious.

CCR divers can you please tell us what we really need to know. We aren't looking for a sales pitch on CCR just the basic stuff in simple terms so we can dive together safely.
 
If I'm in a mixed group of recreational divers I have a bailout reg easily viewable. This is a very rare situation for me.

My predive pitch is: if the rebreather is working fine your help isn't required. If it isn't working, I'm instantly an OC diver. In the unlikely event you need to bring me up as an unresponsive diver, if I'm unconscious and the mouthpiece is out of my mouth without closing it (demonstrate) I move rapidity towards 12lbs negative. My bcd works the same as yours. Also, please can we limit yoyo dive profiles as it's a little more difficult for me.

Beyond that is just for interest sake.

Great thread idea, I'm looking forward to other's recreational buddy briefings.

Regards,
Cameron
 
How do we recognize the bail out? Is it a separate bottle? Where would it be. I dived with a CCR diver who didn't have a bail out but I didn't know what I didn't know at the time.
 
If he is a buddy he needs a secondary reg for buddy sharing just like any OC diver, necklace or clipped off somehow. If he didn't, he's set for solo diving and couldn't be a buddy.

Some rebreather have a built in OC regulator in the rebreather mouthpiece that connects to the tiny air tank on the back. Good for an emergency ascent but not useful to a buddy if you needed it. Can not be shared.

I certainly wouldn't buddy with a diver not prepared to be my alternative air source unless I'm prepared to CESA in case of trouble.
 
Excellent thread! A CCR friend of mine and his regular diving buddy (who is on OC) put together a lecture on this a few years ago, I'll see if they have it online anywhere. I frequently dive in mixed teams. As rebreathers become more and more common, with vacation dive destinations starting to cater to them, it's more an more likely that the average OC diver will run into one.

One thing to know about CCR divers is that we love to talk about our rebreathers, at all times EXCEPT during our pre-dive checks. If you see a diver breathing through the loop on the dive boat, don't ask them questions, and if you do, don't assume they are rude if they don't answer. Even apart from the pre-breathe, there are a number of things on the checklist that we may be going over, and that's not the time to be chatty.

I usually show my OC buddies where my ADV (automatic diluent valve) is. I tell them that if anything looks "funny" to them, I won't mind if they push that button to give me a shot of fresh gas of a known composition, preferably while holding my mouthpiece in place. Unless I have hypoxic dil (which I don't use), the diluent will always be safe to breath at any point in the dive, and exchanging the gas in the loop with diluent might be a helpful first step in dealing with any gas related issue.

If it's just me and a single OC diver, then we need to talk about what to do in case they need gas. CCR divers all carry bailout, which is basically a complete OC scuba unit (tank and regulator) that is usually set up for immediate deployment. This usually looks like a tank hanging in the usual slung position on the divers side (I carry an 80, but sidemount style). However, be aware that there are some less common rebreather configurations where the diluent and the bailout are both backmounted, or even the same tank. Don't be afraid to ask (as long as the pre-dive check isn't happening!).

With a rebreather, the danger isn't so much running out of gas as it is breathing the wrong gas - too much or too little O2, or too much CO2. A diver with hypercapnea (too much CO2 in the loop) has symptoms that can make it very hard to switch to that backup system, so we make it as easy as possible. Some people have a bailout valve, in which case the rebreather mouthpiece can be switched to either connect to the loop or to the OC regulator. This is also something that an OC buddy could potentially switch if the CCR diver was unresponsive. Others (like me) have a separate OC regulator bungeed underneath their chin. Still others just have their OC regulator bungeed to the bailout tank (I don't like this).

So what do we do if you, the OC diver, needs gas? Well, you could take the bungeed necklace, although I don't like the idea of me then having no bailout, so that's not ideal. What I have done in some cases is put a second OC regulator on a long hose on my bailout regulator. In this case, I want to be sure that it doesn't accidentally free flow without me noticing it, so I put a shutoff valve in the line. And for a diver carrying more than one bailout tank (some divers carry 100% O2 for faster bailout decompression), it's obviously crucial to breathe from the right tank. As you can see, it's important to thoroughly discuss whatever the OOG plan will be ahead of time.

You might want to know what that flashing red light on your new CCR buddy's handset means, so ask. Usually, that means that the oxygen levels are too low or too high. There have been cases where the buddy noticed this before the diver did, and called his attention to it! Not the way it's supposed to work, but a good thing to know.

It's not a bad idea for the OC diver to figure out where the wing inflator is, in case a rescue is necessary. Also, we usually do a bubble check at around 20 feet on descent. Something to talk about ahead of time, but small bubbles on a CCR can be more of an issue later in the dive than on OC, so we always check for that on the way down. Do us a favor and look for bubbles that we can't see.

Finally, one thing that CCR divers don't like is a sawtooth (up and down) dive profile. We much prefer to swim around things than over them. That's because unlike OC, every ascent requires venting gas from the loop, and every descent requires adding gas from a very small tank. Also, up and down motion causes the PO2 to drop and spike, respectively, so we try to minimize that.

I’m probably forgetting some things here, but that’s a start!
 
Small correction Cameron, on some rebreathers, specifically the Poseidon (very likely to be dived recreationally), the standard config for dives shallower than 18m is an octopus on the small tank.

I don’t dive like that but many do.

My briefing is to show the bail out valve and say, if there is anything odd about my behaviour or my unit is flashing red, ask if I’m ok. Anything but a clear firm response, turn the valve. If they do that mid dive and there is no problem, I’m not going to be upset. I’d much rather have to turn it back than be ignored when I’m actually in trouble.
 
You know what would help me is a picture of some of these things. Being in Basic one of my major concerns is for the Basic or New diver to be able to have a clearer idea of what they are looking at or look for as the case may be.

Surely I am nt the only rec diver who wonders about this. Please ask your questions as well.
 
Some more common bailout valves:

Poseidon. Black lever on the left of the pic is up for CCR and forward for OC
s-l300.jpg


Hollis BOV. Silver lever is currently in CCR position IIRC

images.jpeg


Some aftermarket BOV look like this, twist the top black switch to change setting

bov.jpg


CCR diver with bailout cylinder on their left

bailout.jpg


Typical bailout cylinder rigging:

images-2.jpeg


This has only 1 second stage, the idea being that there is only 1 failure being planned for, i.e. if my CCR goes bang, Im using it and we are getting out. If you run OOG then you use it and we get out. When I am diving mixed team, especially with newer divers, I will put 2 second stages on the bailout just in case.
 
Fantastic. That is what I was hoping to see. So I will claim ignorance and assume you guys won't think this is a stupid question. Is the lever UP position for CCR and forward for OC a common factor across many units?

If I don't see a slung cylinder like that should I assume there is no share gas potential from that diver? Note this should be addressed in predive if this is my buddy. If this is just someone else on the same dive site we wouldn't have had the chance to talk prior.

Also is it common for a CCR diver not to have a bail out on say a simple fairly shallow OW type dive site.
 
Design of BOV is driven by common considerations but there are differences. General rule is if you don't see bubbles, it's in CC position, turn it to the other one and they should be OC now.

Caveat: we are talking purely recreational diving here. Turning a tech diver BOV without knowing exactly what is in their diluent etc can be very dangerous. (Hypoxic dil etc)

If there is no bailout cylinder then it is unlikely that they will be in a position to donate gas.

There are recreational only CCR divers who are taught that a slung bailout for shallow is not necessary, I don't know any CCR divers that don't carry. I always have at least a 40 and more often than not an 80. Mostly for muscle memory and gear standardisation across dives.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom