Rebreather with a long hose

[PfcAJ]

Well, this petite JJ CCR GUE Diver here in LA can very well manage a 70ft/21m back-up Open Circuit deco 11L cylinder:

View attachment 395989

Cute.

Can she manage 2x lp120s? No. Because there's no where to put them.

 

[PfcAJ]

Agree but for different reasons. Backmounting tanks is ghastly heavy and for the BC caves I dive running OOA (or BO) isn't the issue. Breaking your ankle is a significantly more prominent risk!! I had a friend break his leg walking on wet grass in doubles (compound tib-fib fracture) here is the city with an ambulance 5 mins away. Doing that in the bush is life threatening.

Hence the SM. I max out with 2x sidemounted 130s. While in theory I could add a stage bottle to 130s, in practice its beyond me right now. I can add a stage to sidemounted 85s as they are smaller diameter and easier to work around. So net I end up with a few options:
SM 80s = 150cf (for peacock or something like that)
SM 85s = 200cf (most dives)
SM 85s plus a stage = 280cf
SM 95s = 240cf
SM 130s = 260cf

Open water is different, I have yet to need more than 80cf of my deepest gas.

I don't have a problem with sidemounting bailout, really. I think that's much better than being limited to lp50s with the GUE Jj config.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Cute.

Can she manage 2x lp120s? No. Because there's no where to put them.

No, but I know she can handle additional leashed 11L/AL80 stages, back-ups and safety cylinders as needed along with a mandatory scooter(s) to haul it all. . .

 

[PfcAJ]

No, but I know she can handle additional leashed 11L/AL80 stages, back-ups and safety cylinders as needed along with a mandatory scooter(s) to haul it all. . .

You're not getting what I'm saying.

JUST consider bottom bailout. What do you do when lp50s aren't enough? You can (a) add more tanks or (b) choose bigger tanks.

With the GUE JJ config you cannot do (b).

That's a serious problem when it comes to scalability. Extra tanks means added complexity and things you have to do when you're in an OC bailout situation. Bigger tanks eliminates that.

 

[Kevrumbo]

You're not getting what I'm saying.

JUST consider bottom bailout. What do you do when lp50s aren't enough? You can (a) add more tanks or (b) choose bigger tanks.

With the GUE JJ config you cannot do (b).

That's a serious problem when it comes to scalability. Extra tanks means added complexity and things you have to do when you're in an OC bailout situation. Bigger tanks eliminates that.

You learn to accommodate and manage. . .

Obviously she can't backmount anything larger than maybe Steel 100's as bailout because of her physical size and trim/center of gravity & mass considerations, so the solution is to clip & carry additional leashed AL80's of OC bottom mix BO and back-up deco mix/Nitrox as needed. For extreme deep open water CCR dives here in offshore SoCal, she would have support divers standing by with additional back-up AL80 stages of deco mix; for cave penetrations elsewhere, strategically placed stages & safeties placed along the way as needed. ..

 

[PfcAJ]

You learn to accommodate and manage. . .

Obviously she can't backmount anything larger than maybe Steel 100's as bailout because of her physical size and trim/center of gravity & mass considerations, so the solution is to clip & carry additional leashed AL80's of OC bottom mix BO and back-up deco mix/Nitrox as needed. For extreme deep open water CCR dives here in offshore SoCal, she would have support divers standing by with additional back-up AL80 stages of deco mix; for cave penetrations elsewhere, strategically placed stages & safeties placed along the way as needed. ..

Kev, you're so far out of your element here.

The gue config cannot accommodate bigger bailout cylinders because of the location of the oxygen bottle. It doesn't matter what size the diver is.

And subbing in safety bottles on a cave in nonsense. Take the biggest tanks you can then add safeties if you outrun the bailout supply provided by those tanks.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Kev, you're so far out of your element here.

The gue config cannot accommodate bigger bailout cylinders because of the location of the oxygen bottle. It doesn't matter what size the diver is.

And subbing in safety bottles on a cave in nonsense. Take the biggest tanks you can then add safeties if you outrun the bailout supply provided by those tanks.

When Kirill Egorov was beta testing the JJ in Truk a few years ago, one of the initial configurations was similar to the UTD mCCR Kiss set-up, namely two manifolded AL80's or larger backmount cylinders as dil & BO, and an offboard AL40 of Oxygen.

Whether this is still an optional GUE configuration or not is open for discussion & comment-in-passing based on what I saw (i.e. "Just saying" and notwithstanding "being so far out of your element here"...)

 

[PfcAJ]

When Kirill Egorov was beta testing the JJ in Truk a few years ago, one of the initial configurations was similar to the UTD mCCR Kiss set-up, namely two manifolded AL80's or larger backmount cylinders as dil & BO, and an offboard AL40 of Oxygen.

Whether this is still an optional GUE configuration or not is open for discussion & comment-in-passing based on what I saw (i.e. "Just saying" and notwithstanding "being so far out of your element here"...)

Familiar with it. I don't dislike Beto's KISS configuration either. It does limit the size of the oxygen cylinder though.

 

[LiteHedded]

Kev, you're so far out of your element here.

The gue config cannot accommodate bigger bailout cylinders because of the location of the oxygen bottle. It doesn't matter what size the diver is.

And subbing in safety bottles on a cave in nonsense. Take the biggest tanks you can then add safeties if you outrun the bailout supply provided by those tanks.

You know he never misses a chance to pontificate and tell people he dives in truk.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

I'm not going to belabor the UTD version of the Kiss.

I'm glad, because I'm not referring to that rebreather or that configuration and neither of us had to suffer through that.

No solenoid, no orifice and running the unit manually 100% of the time is just dumb.

I agree.

On most ocean dives to 180-200ft ish every CCR diver I know brings an 80 of bottom gas and an 80 of deco gas, 50% and 70% are probably the most common choices I see.

Is the 80 of bottom gas because they have insufficient dil onboard? If you carry your dil onboard, you just hit the BOV and you're good until your first deco stop. No having to switch when you're already rattled and loopy from a CO2 hit.

Its a long way up to 20ft and so O2 is a poor first deco gas choice unless you are already shallow.

I agree with this too, and didn't say O2 should be the first/only deco gas someone carries.

Its pretty hard to rack up much deco on a recreational depth CCR dive in the ocean...

I would hope so. However, I hardly ever dive in the recreational limits, so racking up deco, particularly for dives where I think an RB is called for, is a certainty.

I only add O2 for deco below about 180-190ft so I think carrying 40cf of the wrong gas is a waste of space and a whole bunch of drag for nothing.

You're the first person I've heard describe an AL40 as "a whole bunch of drag." I tend not to notice mine. But you also talk about an AL80 of bottom gas and an AL80 of 50% or 70%. Surely that is more drag than an AL80 of 50% and an AL40 of O2 with all the dil onboard.

I think you're assuming that the diving I'm describing this configuration for is recreational. It's not.