Getting into deco diving, questions on things being taught and standards

[Rilelen]

There’s definitely room for variation, but I’d have significant pause if I ran into an instructor insisting that “most” people do long hose on left (in SM or BM), or that it’s not okay to wrap the hose around the neck, or that a bungeed necklace is an entanglement hazard. That’s just…not true, and counter to what is (descriptively) “normal”.

For instance, I had an instructor (who I love!!) who liked to run his low pressure inflator off his left tank valve in backmount (rather than the right). He freely admitted that that was a less common choice today, explained the advantages of each, and let me choose. I run mine on the right. He was honest about his preference being uncommon, and owned it as that - a personal preference.

There’s room for preference, but misrepresenting your preference as the “standard” (when it’s not) is…not a good look.

 

[halocline]

Are you sure you’re understanding things correctly with your instructors? Because I have never heard of diving sidemount with two different mixes in your main SM tanks. That’s the biggest red flag of all. I can’t ever imagine diving a configuration like that. The necklace as entanglement is also something I’ve never heard of. These are very out-to-lunch ideas, and I’m guessing that there’s been some miscommunication.

Anyhow, there are (or were) some agencies that didn’t advocate using a long hose other than in restricted areas, but in SM, typically the long hose is stowed on the right tank with two loops; in use one loop goes around your neck, while the other loop stays on the tank under the hose retainers. I bet you know that already. How to do that on the left tank is a head scratcher, but there are (or were) some divers that used left hand 2nd stage for the left tank, and that theoretically could work for either a long or short hose. I feel like that was kind of a fad in the early wild-west days of SM; I never see anyone doing that anymore.

The big, truly weird thing is the idea that your SM tanks would have different blends, and so you really should clarify that. If that is in fact what these instructors are teaching, I think I’d bail on the class and find someone else.

 

[lavatiger99]

Are you sure you’re understanding things correctly with your instructors? Because I have never heard of diving sidemount with two different mixes in your main SM tanks. That’s the biggest red flag of all. I can’t ever imagine diving a configuration like that. The necklace as entanglement is also something I’ve never heard of. These are very out-to-lunch ideas, and I’m guessing that there’s been some miscommunication.

Anyhow, there are (or were) some agencies that didn’t advocate using a long hose other than in restricted areas, but in SM, typically the long hose is stowed on the right tank with two loops; in use one loop goes around your neck, while the other loop stays on the tank under the hose retainers. I bet you know that already. How to do that on the left tank is a head scratcher, but there are (or were) some divers that used left hand 2nd stage for the left tank, and that theoretically could work for either a long or short hose. I feel like that was kind of a fad in the early wild-west days of SM; I never see anyone doing that anymore.

The big, truly weird thing is the idea that your SM tanks would have different blends, and so you really should clarify that. If that is in fact what these instructors are teaching, I think I’d bail on the class and find someone else.

The "Lean Long Left" they were referring to Long hose for main tank on left, lean deco on left. Not putting anything but bottom gasses in main tanks (sorry for the confusion).

 

[rjack321]

The big, truly weird thing is the idea that your SM tanks would have different blends, and so you really should clarify that. If that is in fact what these instructors are teaching, I think I’d bail on the class and find someone else.

The fact that they are pontificating about "standards" which are so out of wack with MX or Fl or really anywhere else is a big nopes for me.

2x 5ft hoses (one on each) is a semi-established way of doing things for instance, although not that widespread nor default anywhere. But the necklace as an entanglement hazard is just ugh. Plus the LLL business is double ugh.

I'd find someone else

 

[lermontov]

sounds like they teaching a preference rather than an industry standard -start with orthodoxy until you understand the implications of adjusting stuff -thats for later

I have both regs on a necklace and I tuck the long hose along the side of the tanks

 

[stretchthepenn]

I'm mildly appalled. My SM instructor was a crusty, old-school sort, so maybe my training is kinda old-fashioned, as well, and reasonable people can disagree about things...but I can't imagine why I'd want my longhose on the left side, I can't see how a necklace would be an entanglement hazard, and I can't comprehend why looping the longhose behind one's neck is a no-no.

Funk all-a dat shizzle.

I advise bailing on those weirdos and asking for a refund.

 

[ginti]

The "Lean Long Left" they were referring to Long hose for main tank on left, lean deco on left. Not putting anything but bottom gasses in main tanks (sorry for the confusion).

Sorry, I am getting confused. I don't dive SM, but I think if you clarify everybody will get a better picture.

I am assuming you are in the nitrox or maybe normoxic trimix realm, so no travel gas. Three quick ones:

1. How many tanks are you using during the course?
2. How many deco-stages, where are they (left, right, or both sides?), and which hose (long/short) are you using for each of them?
3. How many bottom/main tanks are you using, where are they (left, right, or both sides?), and which hose (long/short) are you using for each of them?

EDIT: how could the necklace entangle, where, and in which situation?

 

[Wibble]

To DIR people, talk like this is anathema.

Outside of the DIR community, there are a lot of people who dive "lean left, rich right". This is very relevant to CCR diving too if you're sidemounting your bailouts and want to distribute them.

As it happens, on CCR I put a longhose on the bottom bailout cylinder (i.e. Lean) which is always on the Left hand side. Deco (i.e. rich) cylinders are on the RHS. Bungees keep them all in control.

Different people do different things. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you've deep seated DIR tendencies.

On sidemount, I'll put my bungeed shorthose regulator on the LH cylinder and the longhose on the RH cylinder, bungeed back on to the cylinder so I can pull it out. Sort of sidemount in the DIR style.

Strangely enough I know when I'm on the rebreather and when I'm blowing bubbles on sidemount or even on a single.

 

[kensuf]

There are a few warning flags.

Putting a long hose on the left side of a set of doubles is dangerous because of the risk of that left post rolling off in an air share scenario in an overhead environment, so we put it on the right post on a set of doubles. Most people I know have maintained consistency by putting the long hose on the right sidemount bottle when they dive sidemount.

Necklace bungees to have a second stage right under your mouth are not entanglement hazards and more than one has saved a life. I will admit I had a bad day that got a lot better with a necklace reg.

 

[Wibble]

There are a few warning flags.

Putting a long hose on the left side of a set of doubles is dangerous because of the risk of that left post rolling off in an air share scenario in an overhead environment, so we put it on the right post on a set of doubles. Most people I know have maintained consistency by putting the long hose on the right sidemount bottle when they dive sidemount.

Necklace bungees to have a second stage right under your mouth are not entanglement hazards and more than one has saved a life. I will admit I had a bad day that got a lot better with a necklace reg.

What I am being taught now is "Left, Lean, Long" in reference to the left tank should be the leanest mix, but also my long hose should be on the left side.

I inferred that the longhose on left was referring to CCR Bailout. There's only one deep bailout and that is almost a standard to be on the LHS. It's common to have a longhose on that bottom bailout.

On Sidemount the two principal cylinders contain the same gas, so Lean-Left-Long doesn't apply.

I didn't think the instructor was talking about doubles/twinset -- as they're normally manifolded using the same gas on both sides. You don't put longhoses on deco stages as they're 1m/3'3" which means they can be donated in extremis, but the stage would be passed over to the 'victim'.