Reasons NOT to Use a Computer for a New Diver?

[drrich2]

I agree that some of the dive computer manuals can be miserably difficult to learn from. And that the Dive Nav. courses online can be quite good; I took one on a computer.

The Atomic Aquatics Cobalt has a really nice interface.

People speak highly of the simplicity of the Shearwater Petrel interface, but be mindful there's no air-integrated option.

I believe there are some other computers that have interfaces more like a smart phone and less like a digital wrist watch. The LiquiVision Lynx has a tap interface; you might check whether it uses menus.

I will say the better interface products tend to be pricy.

Big question: will you dive often enough to remember how to use the thing from one trip to the next?

Richard.

 

[gcarter]

Does it have a user replaceable battery?

It does. I have a VEO 2.0 and I am quite happy after 100+ dives with it.

I replace the battery every year. (CR2450)

 

[supergaijin]

I have no problem with new divers buying a computer IF they are taught how to use it properly. Many are not. They are sold a $1000 piece of technology and then given little or no instruction on it's use. Read the manual they are told. Ever try that. Except for Shearwater the computer user manuals I have seen are exercises in frustration and might as well be written in ancient Sumerian. Unless you are a lawyer or engineer forget it. Especially for the people who have just been trained using material designed for 8th graders. And not very smart 8th graders.

Apparently you have never seen an entry level Suunto computer. It's not hard to understand and it's nowhere near $1000.

If an instructor or shop is going to include detailed instruction on the unit fine. Go for it. I was not given that on my first one. I was told of all the great longer dives I could do now. Just don't go into the red and if it gets into the yellow start going up. Not knowing that the algorithm the unit was using was not based on a slightly out of shape 45 yr old male who might be dog tired after working a butt load of overtime that week.

Ever stop to consider that you were not taught how to use your computer because you didn't take a computer-based course?

With them more often limited by air than NDL's I'd rather they take the money and get a watch and analog gauge and work on buoyancy, trim, planning, and sticking to the plan than flying a computer. But that's just me.

Your area may prevent divers from doing multiple dives, however in many tropical locations it's pretty much the norm to make two (or more) hour long dives/day. New divers will benefit from longer bottom times, putting their newly learned skills in to practice.

The price of dive watches may vary considerably but approx $75-$100?
A wrist mounted analogue depth gauge is $72 at LeisurePro.
Suunto Zoop = $250

Using a computer does not prevent divers from working on "buoyancy, trim, planning, or sticking to the plan". Dropping that in here is a Strawman.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually we normally do two to three dives a day. It is not unusual for my UW Nav students to rack up 7 hours of bottom time over the six dives. For OW checkouts they will do five or six dives and each is a min of 45 minutes. I try to keep them in for an hour on each one. But since these dives are maxed a 30 feet or so they get no extra benefit from using a computer.

I was not taught to use a computer because the emphasis was on selling them. Not training people how to use it.

One look at a manual that is 60 or 70 pages or more and the first quarter is legal mumbo jumbo is enough to turn anyone off. I have seen one manual that looks like it was written so that divers could actually use it. And that's the one for my Shearwater Predator.

My computer was not hard to learn as long as you did not read the manual that came with it. As others have said just sitting down and pushing buttons was what actually worked. My GF spent an afternoon with her Geo and came up with a flow chart that she has passed on to a few people who were having serious issues understanding theirs.

You can't tell me the mfg can't do the same thing. But it seems like they are incapable of simplifying their unit instructions. If it weren't for Alberto coming up with his method of training I would hesitate to recommend any computer for fear of someone coming back and throwing it at me.

 

[kelemvor]

That's because user documentation is usually written by the person who designed the product ... who's more interested in describing all the neat features and functions rather than telling you how to actually use the thing.

I've been writing manuals for a living for more than 35 years now, and most of the ones that come with products I buy are just awful things to read. I generally end up tossing them in a drawer and resort to pressing buttons until I figure it out.

I've written my own product manuals, and had hired tech writers produce manuals for my products. Engineers suck at writing manuals in part for the reason you cited. Also, we tend to assume our audience has a level of knowledge that they may not. On the other hand, frequently tech writers are not sufficiently versed in the operation of the product they're writing about. I think it would be great if tech writers worked with the engineers. Usually project managers don't want to spring for the cost of paying both to do the work at the end of a project.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

To answer the OP's question:
The only reason to NOT use a computer for a new diver to me would be cost.
You can get a cheap watch and a depth gauge for probably less than a computer and go diving.

I just ordered a Mares Puck wrist computer, $169 on sale from LP.
I don't know anything about it other than it's Air/Nitrox/timer/RGBM/user replace battery
I guess I'll find out soon enough.

 

[dmoore19]

Check with divecomputertraining.com and see if there is a class you can take online for it. You won't be sorry and the cost is cheap for what you get or can gain from it.

Neither the tables nor the computer have any value whatsoever if you don't know how to use them.

 

[Diver0001]

Recently a newly certified diver asked for some advice on the type of computer to buy. One person (a tech diver) says that nobody should ever use computers in either recreational or tech diving. I asked for rationale and was provided with none.

Tables don't offer any advantages over computers but some divers still refuse to use computers for stylistic reasons.

The only reason I can think of to use tables over computers is if you can't afford one.

R..

 

[je76]

This is one of those things that I hear from time to time and the whole concept is quite confusing.

There are many different pieces of technology that we use on a daily basis that help protect us where we don't understand some of the underlying physics or mathematics. Why does being able to number crunch decompression limits mean you are a better diver, ESPECIALLY at the recreational level?

A computer, with proper instruction on its use, should be considered a standard piece of gear for a recreational diver. It needs not be $1000.00 (I started diving with a Suunto Gekko for $250.00) and is just as safe as tables.

When I hear fellow tech divers or those trained 20-30 years ago talking about tables being safer I listen respectfully, shake my head that I have heard and undestood, put my computer(s) on and jump in the water.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

This is one of those things that I hear from time to time and the whole concept is quite confusing.

There are many different pieces of technology that we use on a daily basis that help protect us where we don't understand some of the underlying physics or mathematics. Why does being able to number crunch decompression limits mean you are a better diver, ESPECIALLY at the recreational level?

A computer, with proper instruction on its use, should be considered a standard piece of gear for a recreational diver. It needs not be $1000.00 (I started diving with a Suunto Gekko for $250.00) and is just as safe as tables.

When I hear fellow tech divers or those trained 20-30 years ago talking about tables being safer I listen respectfully, shake my head that I have heard and understood, put my computer(s) on and jump in the water.

I remember about 12 years ago there was a huge debate over tables vs computers.
The tech community claimed that computers wouldn't allow for deep stops, they could crap out half way through the dive which could be fatal in tech diving (bottom timers can crap out too, just sayin'), would send people straight to 15 feet no matter what the dive, etc.
This spilled backwards into their own recreational diving and they still insisted on not using computers because they felt they could keep their superior edge of "computing on the fly" with the computer between their ears. This is also part of that whole "muscle memory" thing.
So I'm guessing that the anti computer thinking is a hangover from that era.
And also maybe some very old school vintage divers that never changed and have become mentally encrusted like a calcite and can't break loose and move on.
I think the latter is more rare than the former.

Computers have come a long way since then.
My thinking has gone 180 since this thread started.
I'm getting a computer, yay!

Just think about how many computers are in your car doing stuff that you have no idea about. Does it make you a better or worse driver?

Think about this, what are you on right now reading this?