Reason for RH release waist buckle?

[Lorenzoid]

If you're diving a balanced rig, with redundancy gas and redundant buoyancy, when would you need to drop weights?

Drysuit for redundant buoyancy may work fine for the ascent, but once on the surface you may not be able to remain buoyant enough for comfort. You could carry a lift bag, but that takes time to retrieve and inflate. I'm not saying I dive with ditchable weight, but I can see the argument in favor.

 

[crofrog]

Drysuit for redundant buoyancy may work fine for the ascent, but once on the surface you may not be able to remain buoyant enough for comfort. You could carry a lift bag, but that takes time to retrieve and inflate. I'm not saying I dive with ditchable weight, but I can see the argument in favor.

It's not an emergency at that point and the extra few seconds it takes to undo 2 buckles instead of 1 is a non-factor. Specially when compared to the catastrophic risk of an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

Considering we're in a technical diving sub-forum, this is obviously from a technical diving perspective.

 

[Wallowa]

It's not an emergency at that point and the extra few seconds it takes to undo 2 buckles instead of 1 is a non-factor. Specially when compared to the catastrophic risk of an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

Considering we're in a technical diving sub-forum, this is obviously from a technical diving perspective.

Understood...tech forum...but I also assume that not all tech dives are pushing NDL nor wearing dry suits...be that as it may be..in an emergency on the surface or at depth the diver will be at a minimum be stressed or panicked and seconds can only make it worst....fewer steps or manipulations save time and lessens the "out of control feeling" in an emergency...only a non-factor if it works, if it doesn't it becomes a critical issue not correctly addressed.

"catastrophic risk of an uncontrolled buoyant ascent"....only can harm you if those silent bubbles don't stay silent because you cut the safety margin by pushing the BT/depth and NDL. We practiced and trained for out of control ascents...be it from a trawler net dragging you up, loss of weights or stuck power inflator to suit or BCD. If the diver exhales correctly upon breach during an uncontrolled ascent they will not suffer an AGE/pulmonary embolism......250 fpm ascent with a full 40lb BCD and no weights and no embolisms [similar to submarine escape training tower ascents] and it was not a fluke or difficult transition ....all ascents are decompression events and with or without a doppler to detect bubbles the bubbles are there; yes, the many possible circumstances are such that you could generate tissue damage, suffer and die. A well trained diver's responses may and should include the understanding of and execution of an uncontrolled ascent from any depth. Relying on gear or others to save you, may not.

Look I appreciate the thoughtful dialogue on this forum in particularly in this thread. I have two XDeep wings [single/doubles] with steel NR plate; does that make my dives tech dives? Naw, nor me a tech diver. Diving safety need not be complicated nor ornate. I respect those that experiment with new gear and techniques, but do not believe that one size fits all. The basics still apply whether you are using a double hose open circuit air system in open water or a CCR in an overhead environment. You assume the risks and will ultimately have to assume the consequences if the decisions you make are not correct. Complications and additional protocols can precipitate failure in a crisis. KISS works.

I am very much a work in progress even after 69 years of diving and hopefully still open minded enough to learn; but I have already learned that it is not wise to just follow the herd or current paradigm. Only bet what you can afford to lose. I do not intend to go off that cliff; only to edge for a look!

 

[crofrog]

Understood...tech forum...but I also assume that not all tech dives are pushing NDL nor wearing dry suits..

If they're doing technical dives... The should use equipment for technical diving. In addition to being in the technical forum you're in Hogarthian diving forum. Which is a fairly prescriptive equipment configuration. I'd guess at this point over half of the people conducting technical dives in a hoghtarian style config are wearing a drysuit, and the other half are diving something close to a balanced rig (a rig you can swim up from depth at it's heaviest.

.be that as it may be..in an emergency on the surface or at depth the diver will be at a minimum be stressed or panicked and seconds can only make it worst....fewer steps or manipulations save time and lessens the "out of control feeling" in an emergency...only a non-factor if it works, if it doesn't it becomes a critical issue not correctly addressed.

You're going to feel a lot more out of control when you are literally out of control ascending to the surface when your weight belt pops off because something snagged the buckle and flipped it open while you where moving your scooter, or stages around because it something just bumped it.

"catastrophic risk of an uncontrolled buoyant ascent"....only can harm you if those silent bubbles don't stay silent because you cut the safety margin by pushing the BT/depth and NDL.

If you're technical diving by most accepted definitions you have some sort of overhead. Be that an actual ceiling in a cave which getting out of a cave stuck to the ceiling is going to be super annoying and slow, or a decompression obligation that would likely result in bodily harm in the event of an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

We practiced and trained for out of control ascents...be it from a trawler net dragging you up, loss of weights or stuck power inflator to suit or BCD.

Nothing you can do about a trawler dragging you up other than having better surface support, but a stuck power infatlor is pretty easily solved by venting the wing and disconnecting the power inflator, or shutting right post off, while venting from the kidney dump and swimming down (another reason why the kidney dump is on the left).

Loss of weights at the end of the dive is when it's the most dangerous, and depending on much you're lost something that is not solvable.

If the diver exhales correctly upon breach during an uncontrolled ascent they will not suffer an AGE/pulmonary embolism......250 fpm ascent with a full 40lb BCD and no weights and no embolisms [similar to submarine escape training tower ascents] and it was not a fluke or difficult transition ....all ascents are decompression events and with or without a doppler to detect bubbles the bubbles are there;

Sure but there is a pretty big difference between a 30 minute dive at 100ft, and a 30 minute dive at 170ft. If you cork on the first one you're not that likely to get bent... If you cork on the second one you're going to a chamber almost for sure.

but do not believe that one size fits all.

The hog and dir forums probably aren't the place for you then

I am very much a work in progress even after 69 years of diving and hopefully still open minded enough to learn; but I have already learned that it is not wise to just follow the herd or current paradigm. Only bet what you can afford to lose. I do not intend to go off that cliff; only to edge for a look!

The current paradigm you're arguing against is probably close to 30 years old, if not a bit older and has been the basis for some of the largest exploitation dives ever conducted, but it's probably just a flash in the pan


At the end of the day, not being able to ditch weights quickly is at most inconvenient. You've got double tanks, probably stage bottles, and likely a team that can all help you. You're not going to suddenly find yourself out of gas and needing to bolt to the surface, and if you've got a balanced rig (if you don't know what this is search) you're not going to find yourself suddenly needing to ditch weights.

If you loose your weight belt at on your 20ft stop while you still have a bunch of deco do go and you're already getting light on gas weight, you're going to have a bad time and it's not an "inconvenience" it's something there's not a lot you can do except try and swim down for 20 minutes, or hope the team can get negative enough to hold you down.

 

[rx7diver]

... Additionally I trained my divers to not simple "drop" your weight belt but to retain a grip on either end and pull the belt away from the body before releasing it and dropping it ...

Yes, as divers move away from being trained using weight belts, more of the nuance is being lost, I think. For another example, it was stressed to me and my fellow scuba students that weights on your weight belt should be kept from being too close to your backpack, kept well away from the small of your back, lest things get hung up when you are (or your rescuer is) trying to release your weight belt.

rx7diver

 

[Wallowa]

CroFrog....not going to address all you points...suffice it to say a correct weight belt will not be accidentally disconnected and it is better to suffer DCS that death by drowning because you could make an emergency ascent, free swimming or buoyant...if you never surface, you die.

How one chooses to configure their gear should be up to the individual but your gear is not what keeps you alive; training and skill for handling 'what ifs' by your own actions does...like ever dive is a decompression dive; ever dive is a solo dive...your competency and not gear and buddies will ultimately determine if you survive or not....your choices, your life...entirely in your hands.

Best wishes and hope your enjoyment of diving never ends.

 

[rx7diver]

Two more cents of opinion.......over the years the only weight belt buckle that I feel is truly safe in that it tightly connects the ends of the weight belt and is almost fool proof [a really good fool can defeat anything...] in preventing an 'accidental release' but which can quickly and completely be released with a single movement is a wire 'bail' metal to metal buckle ...

I continued to wear my rubber weight belt with the wire pelican beak buckle when I began diving a drysuit for Great Lakes diving. I--we all--wore this type of weight belt and buckle when doing recreational dives in MO/AR.

On one Great Lakes dive early on, I wasn't careful enough, and my wreck line (attached to my DSMB) tripped my weight belt buckle as I was on the surface reeling in the line after ascending from a dive, and I lost my weight belt and weights to the Mackinac Straits. Imagine if this had happened at depth!!

Ever since, I wear a nylon webbing weight belt having two {2} SS buckles whenever I am diving my drysuit.

(But I use my replacement rubber weight belt with pelican beak buckle when diving recreational dives wet.)

Horses for courses!

rx7divers