sounds like a good idea. I am sure it will become a popular solution even if only a partial solution.
Tough love for the industry's lithium addiction
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insomniac
Contributor
At the end of the day there is no one solution to this problem, I actually had a lithium battery fire start in my carry-on bag when it was taken out of the car when arriving at the airport prior to a trip to Socorro (no charging was required). I debated whether or not I should tell this story as it makes me feel very dumb; but hopefully someone can learn from it and perhaps can help prevent a future problem from occurring.
We arrived at the airport and my wife and I started unloading our 8 bags for our trip of a lifetime. I then hear my wife scream, as the bag she just set down was smoking (a lot of smoke, just billowing out of the bag). It was insanely scary and obviously not ideal when you are at an airport. Lucky for us we were still outside (curbside), and it was like 4:30-5:00AM on a Saturday; so there was not many people around.
I felt like a complete idiot after it happened, as I knew exactly what happened and what was causing the smoke (and small fire), and something stupid I did made me partially responsible for it happening.
At the time, I had the now defunct Liquivision Lynx Dive computers and U2 transmitters. The transmitters were awesome; you could read everyone's air programmed into your computer up to 300' away (plus they had a buddy locator feature). But with those cool features came major battery drain; with the small batteries I could only get 1-2 dives (and it sucks changing out batteries multiple times a day on a live aboard). Anyways, Liquivision had just sent me "new" extended battery caps that allowed us to use a larger 26500 lithium battery (similar to the 18650 but bigger). The only problem was, Liquivisions quality control was beyond terrible. The extended battery caps were milled too narrow for the battery to fit in the container (and unrelated, they were missing the spring at the bottom too; which just helps to tell you how bad the qc was).
But I discovered that if I removed the plastic label / wrapper from the battery they just barely fit (that's how close it was)! So that's what I did; I removed wrappers from all 6 batteries I brought with me on this trip. I stored 2 of the batteries in the transmitters, and 4 in my tackle box (neatly stacked in the bottom left corner of my tackle box). Well, when my wife removed the carry-on bag from the car; it obviously jostled the batteries around. And I didn't know it at the time; but when I removed that wrapper / label I effectively turned the entire battery (except the very top) into a negative terminal (instead of just the bottom). Because of this huge negative/conductive surface area I helped create; the batteries shorted each other out when jostled and started smoking / sparking / producing an insane amount of heat that melted a hole in the bottom of my tackle box.
Luckily; I was at least smart enough to realize instantly what had happened (even before I unzipped the bag). Plus, luckily I was very organized and I knew exactly where they were (bottom left of tackle box). I immediately opened my suitcase, removed the tackle box, removed the modular containers on top and located the problem batteries. They weren't on fire; but were insanely hot; billowing smoke, and sparking and making noises. I dumped the affected batteries onto the concrete and did my best to separate them. It was crazy; one of the batteries continued to spark and smoke 10 minutes later (all this happening right outside the airport). And we are talking thick black smoke...
As a a side note; these batteries were also sitting on top of my AA Enloop strobe batteries; nothing happened to those; except the outer material melted and wouldn't be useable. Anyways, after things calmed down; I spent the next 30 minutes trying to find someone to help me dispose of the affected batteries (thankful we got to the airport plenty early). I didn't have any luck and wasn't about to put a couple potentially volatile batteries in the trash (even though they had since cooled down). Last thing I wanted to do was burn the airport down. For some reason the lady at check-in said she would take care of it for me (I'm pretty sure she had no idea what she was dealing with). We made our flight; I was insanely grateful that didn't happen in the airport, on the plane or in the boat. But it gave me a much greater level of respect for those things; I felt insanely stupid for not knowing I was increasing the chances of a short by removing the label so they would fit in the battery holder (Liquivision did eventually replace the caps after the trip with ones that fit the batteries with the label and even had the required springs)
Needless to say, I now travel with all my Lithium batteries in separate containers so they can't short out (as that can still happen even if you are not an idiot that removes the outer wrapper). And I think everyone should take care to do the same.
I wanted to make this point because even though charging restrictions may help with some instances; it wouldn't have helped in this case where no charging was involved.
We arrived at the airport and my wife and I started unloading our 8 bags for our trip of a lifetime. I then hear my wife scream, as the bag she just set down was smoking (a lot of smoke, just billowing out of the bag). It was insanely scary and obviously not ideal when you are at an airport. Lucky for us we were still outside (curbside), and it was like 4:30-5:00AM on a Saturday; so there was not many people around.
I felt like a complete idiot after it happened, as I knew exactly what happened and what was causing the smoke (and small fire), and something stupid I did made me partially responsible for it happening.
At the time, I had the now defunct Liquivision Lynx Dive computers and U2 transmitters. The transmitters were awesome; you could read everyone's air programmed into your computer up to 300' away (plus they had a buddy locator feature). But with those cool features came major battery drain; with the small batteries I could only get 1-2 dives (and it sucks changing out batteries multiple times a day on a live aboard). Anyways, Liquivision had just sent me "new" extended battery caps that allowed us to use a larger 26500 lithium battery (similar to the 18650 but bigger). The only problem was, Liquivisions quality control was beyond terrible. The extended battery caps were milled too narrow for the battery to fit in the container (and unrelated, they were missing the spring at the bottom too; which just helps to tell you how bad the qc was).
But I discovered that if I removed the plastic label / wrapper from the battery they just barely fit (that's how close it was)! So that's what I did; I removed wrappers from all 6 batteries I brought with me on this trip. I stored 2 of the batteries in the transmitters, and 4 in my tackle box (neatly stacked in the bottom left corner of my tackle box). Well, when my wife removed the carry-on bag from the car; it obviously jostled the batteries around. And I didn't know it at the time; but when I removed that wrapper / label I effectively turned the entire battery (except the very top) into a negative terminal (instead of just the bottom). Because of this huge negative/conductive surface area I helped create; the batteries shorted each other out when jostled and started smoking / sparking / producing an insane amount of heat that melted a hole in the bottom of my tackle box.
Luckily; I was at least smart enough to realize instantly what had happened (even before I unzipped the bag). Plus, luckily I was very organized and I knew exactly where they were (bottom left of tackle box). I immediately opened my suitcase, removed the tackle box, removed the modular containers on top and located the problem batteries. They weren't on fire; but were insanely hot; billowing smoke, and sparking and making noises. I dumped the affected batteries onto the concrete and did my best to separate them. It was crazy; one of the batteries continued to spark and smoke 10 minutes later (all this happening right outside the airport). And we are talking thick black smoke...
As a a side note; these batteries were also sitting on top of my AA Enloop strobe batteries; nothing happened to those; except the outer material melted and wouldn't be useable. Anyways, after things calmed down; I spent the next 30 minutes trying to find someone to help me dispose of the affected batteries (thankful we got to the airport plenty early). I didn't have any luck and wasn't about to put a couple potentially volatile batteries in the trash (even though they had since cooled down). Last thing I wanted to do was burn the airport down. For some reason the lady at check-in said she would take care of it for me (I'm pretty sure she had no idea what she was dealing with). We made our flight; I was insanely grateful that didn't happen in the airport, on the plane or in the boat. But it gave me a much greater level of respect for those things; I felt insanely stupid for not knowing I was increasing the chances of a short by removing the label so they would fit in the battery holder (Liquivision did eventually replace the caps after the trip with ones that fit the batteries with the label and even had the required springs)
Needless to say, I now travel with all my Lithium batteries in separate containers so they can't short out (as that can still happen even if you are not an idiot that removes the outer wrapper). And I think everyone should take care to do the same.
I wanted to make this point because even though charging restrictions may help with some instances; it wouldn't have helped in this case where no charging was involved.
This just goes to show how stable these things actually are. Reading this thread one might think they're incendiary hand grenades, primed and with the pin out. IRL it usually takes work to make them go *boom*.
So.. I recently got some sample video lights that take 18650's, 4 of them to be exact. The samples are VERY bright (but they lie bout the lumens still claiming 16,000, when in fact it's about 12,000 and looking at leds used and doing some math, they are overdriving the snot outta them, which is heat and lower life, but also sucking the energy out of the batteries very fast. They are pretty darn nice lights however in color temp and have enough run time I need, and have a nice consistent light output across the beam angle. .
I was using them with the 18650's they sent with them, however they are marked 5000mah and I happen to know that that is a lie, because well, they aren't actually made with a capacity that high. The highest true capacity is just shy of 3000mah. They are also marked protected, but I had my doubts.
Anyhow, i decided that I would use some samsung 18650's that are 2600mah, that I know are genuine. The light will turn on and immediately off because the real samsung batteries with a real protection board says "hell no dude, you are gonna gas me, overheat me and if you do that I am gonna hurt you, so I will shut off instead".
Just something for folks to think about, and no, I am not going to bring in and sell a light that needs cells that aren't really protected to work, regardless of what the OEM/ODM is trying to tell me.
I was using them with the 18650's they sent with them, however they are marked 5000mah and I happen to know that that is a lie, because well, they aren't actually made with a capacity that high. The highest true capacity is just shy of 3000mah. They are also marked protected, but I had my doubts.
Anyhow, i decided that I would use some samsung 18650's that are 2600mah, that I know are genuine. The light will turn on and immediately off because the real samsung batteries with a real protection board says "hell no dude, you are gonna gas me, overheat me and if you do that I am gonna hurt you, so I will shut off instead".
Just something for folks to think about, and no, I am not going to bring in and sell a light that needs cells that aren't really protected to work, regardless of what the OEM/ODM is trying to tell me.
So what do we think about this? I’m pretty sure these use purpose built batteries rather than the bundled 18650’s but it’s still Li-Ion I wonder what code changes were made?
Brian G
Contributor
StefinSB
Contributor
It's not quite that simple: depending on battery chemistry, it may support 10 amp continuous discharge, or it may support 30 amp. Look at these guys, for example: Wholesale Li-ion Batteries | Liion Wholesale -- 1st page has 5 samsung models rated at 15, 20, 30, and 35 A continuous discharge.
It's great that they shut off when you try to pull more than they can deliver, and .cn lumens and mAhs are of course a joke, but nevertheless: if your light draws 15A, and your samsung cells can only deliver 10, you're looking at a user error.
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