R109 lever height

[LeadTurn_SD]

-109 Lever height revisited...

Its been a few days, and I was curious if there was a consensus on lever height issues.... In particular, does the center lever, which seems to be most common (and is the one I have), work properly when used with the S-wing poppet?

I just assembled mine (I decided to go with balanced, installed S-wing poppet, balance chamber new spring), but the lever height seems high.

I tuned to "just stop the leak", installed the cover..... then just like awap mentioned in one of the posts above, I needed to take about 2 full turns on the orifice to again barely "stop the leak".... this results in a cracking pressure a hair above 2.0", and while this is not terrible, it is not good, and I may not be getting full travel on the poppet.... subjectively, breathing performance "feels" like a low-end octo, not a well-tuned primary, so something is not right. While it may be a too-high lever, I want to redo it from scratch and see it there is something else I might have missed (I'm going to re-check the orifice surface for nicks).

Best wishes.

 

[halocline]

At some point I'll take my best breathing 109 apart to see what kind of lever it has. The one I just rebuilt has the middle lever, and I had to do exactly as you did, although I did not count the turns on the orifice to lower the lever enough. I'm pretty sure it's pulling less than 2". I don't have a magnahelic.

I do know that I can usually get them to the point where case fault geometry starts them flowing when I'm facing down. My guess is that's about 1" of cracking pressure. You can't really check that until you dive with them.

Out of curiosity, when you take it apart, does the poppet just fall out or do you have to push it from the other end? You might try very lightly greasing the wings of the poppet; there's one on top and one on each side. I believe those keep the poppet centered in the air barrel. Maybe there;s a little friction adding to the cracking resistance. That's just a guess.

 

[redacted]

-109 Lever height revisited...

Its been a few days, and I was curious if there was a consensus on lever height issues.... In particular, does the center lever, which seems to be most common (and is the one I have), work properly when used with the S-wing poppet?

I just assembled mine (I decided to go with balanced, installed S-wing poppet, balance chamber new spring), but the lever height seems high.

I tuned to "just stop the leak", installed the cover..... then just like awap mentioned in one of the posts above, I needed to take about 2 full turns on the orifice to again barely "stop the leak".... this results in a cracking pressure a hair above 2.0", and while this is not terrible, it is not good, and I may not be getting full travel on the poppet.... subjectively, breathing performance "feels" like a low-end octo, not a well-tuned primary, so something is not right. While it may be a too-high lever, I want to redo it from scratch and see it there is something else I might have missed (I'm going to re-check the orifice surface for nicks).

Best wishes.

I'm not sure we will ever figure out exactly what the problem is but I am fairly sure that Scubapro will never tell us. I'd try a current lever and see if that corrects the problem.

Grease on those wings may attract dirt and aggravate the problem. I suspect the poppet material is selected to minimize friction. I guess you could always check for scratches inside the barrel and try a little polish if necessary.

 

[Luis H]

I agree with awap about not adding grease to the poppet. I would make sure the barrel is very clean. I use a nylon brush to clean them and then I do a narrow roll with a paper towel to clean the inside. It is amassing some of the dirt I have cleaned out of some old 109.

A breathing resistance of 2 inWC is too high for a BA. Is the adjustment knob all the way out?


On a side note:
I dove one of my nice BA (156) last weekend. It breathes great… what a great performer, but I forgot how heavy single hose regulators are on my mouth. I also tried a new modern plastic second stage and the weight underwater was the same… it just didn’t breath as good. I haven’t done a whole dive with a single hose in well over a year (maybe two)… every once in a while I need to use a single hose again to remind me why I prefer my double hose. Single hose are great for stage bottles, alternate air source, etc. But for comfort during a full long dive, I will continue to use my double hose.

 

[CMAN]

Here is a picture of the new style lever that I had in my pictures.

 

[redacted]

Here is a picture of the new style lever that I had in my pictures.

Well, that is yet a 4th style lever. Do you know how old that style is? My newest ones are about 2 years old and look like the one on the left in couv's picture.

 

[halocline]

I know I've seen that stepped lever before, I had assumed it was an older style; the one that would not work with the s-wing poppet. I thought that had something to do with the step in the feet not matching up well with the spacing of the wings on the s-wing poppet. It's starting to get confusing....

Someone with a micrometer could measure the spacing of the wings on the s-wing poppet and on that of the older styles. It would be interesting to see if they're different.

Until recently I have never paid much attention to the particular lever styles in the regs that I own. At some point I'll start taking them apart and noting what I have in my 109s and G250s. I think most of them are the middle one in Couv's photo.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to tear my -109 apart again and see if there is somthing I "missed" (wouldn't be the first time I've missed something ).

I did clean the inside of the air tube with a nylon pipe brush, an in general this -109 was pretty darned clean already (I got lucky).... but in my haste to get it assembled and tested, and because the metal bits all looked so good in general, I did not examine the orifice as closely as probably should have (with magnification to aid my old eyes).

Thanks again for the replies, and when I figure it out, I'll post my error or the "fix".

Best wishes.

 

[CMAN]

Here is a picture of three levers arranged from newest to oldest (I think.) The lever on the right (oldest) is the one I definitely have problems using with the Duro poppet.



c

I just finished an anual service on a S600 that was new last year. I cheched the lever and it is like the one on the left in couv's picture. I also checked one of my R109's and it had the lever pictured in the middle.

 

[CMAN]

I just serviced an older R109 and it had the old style poppet and this lever. Appearently the picture I had in "My Pictures" is miss labled as "new style".