R109 lever height

[Texfrazer]

The worst thing is my wife came I while I have these three 109s scattered about on my desk, stepped over three complete sets of regulators laying on the floor from our trip last week; and just shook her head. Do you think that means I can buy one more?

That's how I read it :chuckle: but don't blame me if you don't get any more :Kissy:



Back on topic, I did not get a chance to take apart my 109s and 156s to check the levers. I will try to get to them soon, but I'm having to prep for a work trip in a few weeks where I'll be 2/3 of the way between the Canadian border and the arctic circle.

 

[aquaregia]

I just took apart my 109 with the 45 degree lever and put in a 30 degree lever. If I just gave the plastic orifice a few turns I couldn't screw the LP hose in all the way. Once I had the orifice in far enough that I could attach the LP hose, the lever was too low. Thinking that I got my levers mixed up, I put in the other one, reassembled it and it breathes great. I went and measured the angle on the remaining lever, and it was 30 degrees, indicating that I just reinstalled the 45 and solved my issues.

Strange days.

 

[halocline]

You have a 109 with a plastic orifice? That's really too bad.

 

[redacted]

I just took apart my 109 with the 45 degree lever and put in a 30 degree lever. If I just gave the plastic orifice a few turns I couldn't screw the LP hose in all the way. Once I had the orifice in far enough that I could attach the LP hose, the lever was too low. Thinking that I got my levers mixed up, I put in the other one, reassembled it and it breathes great. I went and measured the angle on the remaining lever, and it was 30 degrees, indicating that I just reinstalled the 45 and solved my issues.

Strange days.

I don't trust miraculous cures. If I don't understand why a regulator had a problem but now appears to be working OK, I'd be suspicious.

I also don't understand how you could possibly be making a seal between the orifice and the seat while the orifice is not at least screwed in far enough to install the hose. I'd suspect that something may not be assembled correctly.

 

[aquaregia]

Oh, sorry, after the hose didn't fit in I switched the levers. I'm pretty sure it would have blasted air out but I didn't even try pressurizing it. I suspect I had the orifice a little bit too tight; when I was tuning it if I tightened it too far it recreated the problem I was seeing.

In other news, I discovered that my other 109 has a very very light freeflow. If I seal the exhaust tee with my hands and put it in my mouth, my mouth fills up with air after about 15-20s. The seat is a fresh flip (~25 dives) so I'm sort of suspecting the orifice.

Speaking of orifices, the plastic orifice is not as good? Does it not perform as well? More likely to freeflow? I replaced the old one and that's what was in the parts bag. The LDS tech said he actually liked the plastic orifices better because they were harder to screw up during maintenance.

 

[redacted]

Oh, sorry, after the hose didn't fit in I switched the levers. I'm pretty sure it would have blasted air out but I didn't even try pressurizing it. I suspect I had the orifice a little bit too tight; when I was tuning it if I tightened it too far it recreated the problem I was seeing.

In other news, I discovered that my other 109 has a very very light freeflow. If I seal the exhaust tee with my hands and put it in my mouth, my mouth fills up with air after about 15-20s. The seat is a fresh flip (~25 dives) so I'm sort of suspecting the orifice.

Speaking of orifices, the plastic orifice is not as good? Does it not perform as well? More likely to freeflow? I replaced the old one and that's what was in the parts bag. The LDS tech said he actually liked the plastic orifices better because they were harder to screw up during maintenance.

Most seem to think you can get a little closer to the edge with a good metal orifice. I suspect that is why you see the 3x more expensive metal orifice in regs like the G250V and the A700. But it may be just a case of the princess and the pea.

An orifice that is tighter than needed just has more room for hose attachment so I'm still not sure exactly what was going on there that the orifice could interfere with hose attachment. When you changed the lever, did you disassemble (remove the poppet) everything in the barrel first? If not, the poppet may slip a pretty good ways up into the barrel where the orifice installs.

 

[halocline]

The LDS tech said he actually liked the plastic orifices better because they were harder to screw up during maintenance.

Beautiful.

 

[aquaregia]

The orifice tightness affects the lever height, right? I think I had it too tight, therefore the lever too low, hence the delay in air delivery and the low max flow. Does that make sense, or am I misunderstanding?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

The orifice tightness affects the lever height, right? I think I had it too tight, therefore the lever too low, hence the delay in air delivery and the low max flow. Does that make sense, or am I misunderstanding?

Yes to all of the above (except the misunderstanding part... you've got it). You want the maximum lever height, short of fouling the diaphragm and causing a free flow.

Awap gave a good description (earlier in this thread? I'll have to go look) on a way to tune most "single adjustment" barrel poppet seconds.

Be sure to hold the purge down a bit whenever adjusting the orifice so it does not cut the soft seat....

Best wishes.

 

[redacted]

The orifice tightness affects the lever height, right? I think I had it too tight, therefore the lever too low, hence the delay in air delivery and the low max flow. Does that make sense, or am I misunderstanding?

That does make good sense. And, if the inherent lever height (based on design geometry) is too high, then you have have to screw the orifice in further than you should to bring the lever down and make contact with the seat. This sets it up with higher spring tension and, therefore, harder breathing. But none of these conditions should leave the orifice interfering with hose installation.