Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[CT-Rich]

You should never need a seat belt, any time, ever. If you do, you are a sh*tty driver.

This is a basic forum. You are free to believe what ever you want, but I have seen a enough bug eyed newbies to say I think you are wrong. A drysuit diver has a lot more problems ditching their rig because they have no other way to add air. You are also assuming that people keep their rig exactly the same from dive to dive. Lose the hood on the second dive or decide to use a steel tank instead of Al. Get blown off the wreck at the start of the dive and surface away from the boat and have to wait for a pick-up. More situations than you can come up with. Why are you seeing so much value in getting rid of what is essentially a no-cost option? What is the value added of no ditchable weights?

 

[Storker]

If you need to ditch weight, you're overweighted. Simple and clear.

Pardon the French, but IMNSHO that's bovine manure.

At the end of a dive, my wing is completely empty, and I'm so shrink-wrapped in my DS that literally the first thing I do after surfacing and inflating my wing is to hit my DS' inflate button. So, prolly not overweighted. Still, I'm not higher in the water than I'd really prefer, and I really prefer to keep my reg in my gob. Now, if I were OOG and in just a bit of chop, it could easily become a mite uncomfortable. Having the option to ditch some 7-8kg (which is what I carry on my belt) and float quite a bit higher in the water if the manure should intercept with the rotating ventilation device is something I really appreciate.

If I ever would need to ditch, I would ditch my whole rig. That would keep me afloat for sure, but things have gone awfully wrong by then. So much I might well have bigger issues then not being able to ditch weight.

That's your choice. Me, I prefer having the option to ditch a weight belt that costs as much as a bottle of scotch to replace rather than ditching my whole rig (which, incidentally, cost quite a bit more, so I'd have much bigger issues ditching it).

 

[Dan]

...If I ever would need to ditch, I would ditch my whole rig. That would keep me afloat for sure, but things have gone awfully wrong by then. So much I might well have bigger issues then not being able to ditch weight.

You rather ditching the whole gear than the $20 weights?

I have several safety gears in my BCD pockets.
PLB
DSMB
Flashlight
Nautilus Marine Rescue GPS
Dive Alert
Strobe light, etc.
As shown, below.

Hopefully I would never need to use any of them. Should I be lost at sea, those signaling devices would help the SAR people to rescue me instead of recover my body.

You just don’t know what kind of problem you will encounter. Having option to ditch weight is one sure & easy option to keep me afloat with torn / leaky bladder BCD.

I’ll be in Cocos in 2 months, so I’ve been thinking about what if’s. I can hang on to the floaty empty AL80 & at least use it as a shield if a tiger shark is trying to eat me while floating in the water. If I don’t have my gears with me, I’ll be an easy meal for them.

 

[Dan]

Another potential BCD bladder failure to inflate is overusing pulldump valve of the BCD power inflator hose. I read people pulling the inflator hose too hard & pop off the shoulder vent elbow. When that happens to you, it would be nice to have the option to dump the lead.

Check out this thread:
Can I visually identify a pull dump on the inflator assembly?
@Diver0001 posted this on that thread: “In one case a diver pulled his inflator dump along a wall with a bottom depth of +/- 180m where it happened. He had the sense to dump his weights and return to the surface but it could have just as easily cost him his life.” If you don’t have ditchable weights & rather ditching out your gear, how would your chance of survival be after dumping off your gear & CESA from 180m?

Personally, after reading several of these failures, I don’t do the pull dump of the inflator hose. I’d raise the inflator hose above my head & press the deflating button and let the air out of the bladder through the vent hole at the end of the inflator hose. If I want to do a negative entry, I pull the bottom pull dump to vent the bladder air from the vent near my waist.

 

[Lorenzoid]

What is the value added of no ditchable weights?

When I dive with a thin wetsuit and steel backplate, I see value in having all of the weight close to my back instead of on a belt on my waist or in BC pockets at my sides, neither of which is easy to adjust for horizontal trim. While I would agree that trim is often over-emphasized in importance, it is at least part of the equation to me. Also, if I'm renting a tank, I don't have to bother with selecting lead as well. Other advantages include that I am less likely to forget to don the weight belt or replace ditchable weight pockets. Also, a belt or weight pockets can inadvertently come undone. I have seen lots of weight pockets on the ocean floor. Admittedly, I have read that integrated weight pocket release systems are more reliable than they used to be when I had such a BC. Once, my own belt came undone and slipped away--rental belts sometimes are not in the best of shape, are too long and dangly, etc. I really hate belts. However, for the times I do need more weight, I use a rubber weight belt. But I would imagine that a lot of vacation-type divers would be happy not bringing along yet another item of gear if they can get away with it. If they don't overweight themselves, they may be able to join those of us who enjoy diving lead free (or nearly lead free).

 

[Edward3c]

You suggesting something I did not say just to prove your point. What I mean is: you should not have to ditch weight at anytime ever. If you need to ditch weight, you're overweighted. Simple and clear. A balanced rig has nothing to do with how your weight is placed on you. I don't object to ditchable weight, just don't see any need for it.

If I ever would need to ditch, I would ditch my whole rig. That would keep me afloat for sure, but things have gone awfully wrong by then. So much I might well have bigger issues then not being able to ditch weight.

When I’m teaching students with a configuration where they don’t have any lead to ditch I suggest they carry an additional buoyancy device. Some wings have two independent bladders, which is perfectly acceptable.

But to say a diver is overweighted just because they carry ditchable weight will just wind others up.

 

[Lorenzoid]

When I’m teaching students with a configuration where they don’t have any lead to ditch I suggest they carry an additional buoyancy device. Some wings have two independent bladders, which is perfectly acceptable.

But to say a diver is overweighted just because they carry ditchable weight will just wind others up.

Not to speak for AJ, but he said "If you need to ditch weight, you're overweighted." He did not say if you carry ditchable weight, you're overweighted.

 

[REVAN]

If you don't like weight belts, again I'll suggest checking out using a neck weight instead. It's smaller, more streamlined, and provides better trim than a weight belt. Plus it is still ditchable. I use a 6 pound neck weight which is good for diving in my bathing suit with an AL80. Any extra weight to compensate for a wetsuit, I carry on a rubber belt. However, even if you choose to carry the rest of your weight bolted or strapped in to your rig, 6 pounds ditchable weight is still better than none at all.

The neck weight is a very comfortable way to carry some lead while diving. In fact, the only issue I have ever encountered with using a neck weight is that it is so comfortable that I have at times forgotten I was still wearing it when I attempted to take off my wetsuit. I use a freediving wetsuit with an integrated hood, so that won't work. Now I've learned to feel my neck before attempting to remove my wetsuit top. Getting stuck half way through extraction can be a little embarrassing.

 

[MichaelRyanSd]

I have a question about detachable weight. What's the point of having it as detachable if the only weight I carry is about 4lbs. I'm tempted to see if I can go down to 2.

I guess my follow on at that point is, I'd rather put it as trim weight somewhere on the BP or the tank straps. Would I have any glaring safety issues if my only detachable weight is 4lbs

 

[MichaelMc]

I have a question about detachable weight. What's the point of having it as detachable if the only weight I carry is about 4lbs. I'm tempted to see if I can go down to 2.

I guess my follow on at that point is, I'd rather put it as trim weight somewhere on the BP or the tank straps. Would I have any glaring safety issues if my only detachable weight is 4lbs

A key question might be if that 4 or 2 lb. is all that is left over after an AL plate and bare tank bands, or all that is left over after a 6 lb. steel plate, 1 lb. STA, and tank bands?