Question about “balanced rigs” and having all ballast unditchable

[MichaelRyanSd]

I’ve got a Steel Plate, STA and tank bands. I’ve also got a canister light

 

[MichaelMc]

So 'what's the point of ditchable I only carry 2-4lb, I'd rather use it for trim?' misses the option that an AL plate would give you 3-4 lb. + 2-4 lb. free that you can split between ditchable and trim. Which should let you do both, particularly if you put 2-4 lb. on your shoulders. Its not the 2-4 lb. you have ditchable thats trapped you between trim or ditchable, its that and the steel plate.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I have a question about detachable weight. What's the point of having it as detachable if the only weight I carry is about 4lbs. I'm tempted to see if I can go down to 2.

I guess my follow on at that point is, I'd rather put it as trim weight somewhere on the BP or the tank straps. Would I have any glaring safety issues if my only detachable weight is 4lbs

Have you actually tried going down to 30-40 feet or so and tried kicking to the surface with no air in the wing? That''s the acid test. Your intuition that 2-4 lbs. isn't likely to make or break that exercise seems right to me. With a 3mm full wetsuit, steel plate, and Al 80, I use two 1 lb. weights in trim pockets on the upper cambands purely for trim, and no other lead. When I don't have 1 lb weights handy, I use two 2 lb. weights. Either way, I can easily kick up to the surface and remain floating there comfortably.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have a question about detachable weight. What's the point of having it as detachable if the only weight I carry is about 4lbs. I'm tempted to see if I can go down to 2.

I guess my follow on at that point is, I'd rather put it as trim weight somewhere on the BP or the tank straps. Would I have any glaring safety issues if my only detachable weight is 4lbs

When I am instructing in a pool with a 3mm suit, I am usually 4-6 pounds over ideal weight. I do a demonstration on using lungs for buoyancy that should some may find illuminating.

In the deep end of the pool, I dump all my air and settle on the bottom. I then put a random shot of air into the BCD and inhale. That lifts me off the bottom. I then use my fingers to show when I am inhaling and exhaling as I ascend all the way to the surface without kicking, using nothing but my lungs for the ascent. On the surface, I do a big exhale and then repeat the process all the way back down to the bottom.

To summarize, while 4-6 pounds overweighted and with only a small shot of air in the BCD, I can go to the surface under control without kicking, just using my breathing to drive the ascent.

In my regular single tank recreational diving, I prefer to be a few pounds over ideal weight; however, IMO, most divers think their ideal weight is 6-8 pounds more than it is. If I use any of those ridiculous online weight calculators, I end up with a total at least twice as much as I need.

 

[MichaelRyanSd]

I should have mentioned I dive in SoCal, so I went with the steel due to saltwater and I also dive a 7mm full suit/gloves/boots

 

[Bob DBF]

If I ever would need to ditch, I would ditch my whole rig. That would keep me afloat for sure, but things have gone awfully wrong by then. So much I might well have bigger issues then not being able to ditch weight.

Hell, if I ditch my weight belt, things have gone awfully wrong. Back in the day I was taught to ditch my rig, but it was after ditching the weightbelt was not solving ones issues. Keeping air and any other gear that may come in handy later was to be considered before ditching, and this was before BC's. Having a measured approach to solving an emergency was considered preferable to "all or nothing". However, depending on your diving, this may be the best approach for you to an emergency situation where you need buoyancy, having no idea of your diving or rig.



Bob

 

[Dan_P]

The underlaying mentality, to me, is that if I rely on a BCD to work because I'm very negatively bouyant (obviously in particular if in the absence of a drysuit), then the eggs-to-baskets-ratio alert kicks in.

In either case, as the question relates to ditchable weight, the problem is if ditching weight means all you're doing is replacing an uncontrolled descent with an uncontrolled ascent - first, it's not desirable to do uncontrolled ascends, so the logic goes that it'd be better to look for alternative solutions. Second, it's not scalable into e.g. tech diving where applying that sort of mentatily/solution is really dangerous.
If learning to dive, one (subject to opinion) might as well learn to do it in a way that one won't need to unlearn with every step of one's evolution.

The goal, rather, is to establish a situation where the diver is not relying on any one single piece of equipment, and can always control their ascend to the surface while maintaining all the necessary/planned stops.

 

[Storker]

In either case, as the question relates to ditchable weight, the problem is if ditching weight means all you're doing is replacing an uncontrolled descent with an uncontrolled ascent

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather experience an uncontrolled ascent than an uncontrolled descent. You can often fix bent, you can never fix drowned.

And you're completely missing - or ignoring - the fact that much of the discussion lately has been about ditching at the surface. Unless you're hoisted aboard a helicopter, it's a mite difficult to have an uncontrolled ascent from the surface...

 

[CT-Rich]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather experience an uncontrolled ascent than an uncontrolled descent. You can often fix bent, you can never fix drowned.

And you're completely missing - or ignoring - the fact that much of the discussion lately has been about ditching at the surface. Unless you're hoisted aboard a helicopter, it's a mite difficult to have an uncontrolled ascent from the surface...

Is with people thinking that this is about parachuting up from the bottom of the ocean? Ditching weights is about staying at the surface after the sh*t hits the fan. It’s about staying at the surface and waiting patiently for rescue or swimming to shore.

If you’re not wearing exposure soon and I only need a couple pounds of lead to stay neutral it doesn’t really matter. However, if you need to wear a wetsuit three mm or more, you’ll probably need some ballast. If you choose not to use ride and have a backplate when configuration, you are in the minority. Most recreational scuba divers are using traditional BCD tank configurations.

 

[Dan_P]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather experience an uncontrolled ascent than an uncontrolled descent. You can often fix bent, you can never fix drowned.

And you're completely missing - or ignoring - the fact that much of the discussion lately has been about ditching at the surface. Unless you're hoisted aboard a helicopter, it's a mite difficult to have an uncontrolled ascent from the surface...

Arterial gas embolisms and getting chopped by a kayak, speedboat or jet ski isn't exactly something you walk off, either.
Balanced rig works equally well or better in any scenario, it also works in pretty much any scenario, and is scalable into any type of diving. That's why some divers prefer it.