PSI regulations pertaining to dip tube and vip

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Never though of that. Pretty clever, though probably safest to do with a donor tank that closer to empty than full unless your weight lifter buddy is available the do the holding.

I got a lightweight DIY traveling whip I use for the same purpose. Costs about $4, I'll post a picture soon as I can remember where I put it.

Because you have two cylinders here is a poor man's whip. Align the two cylinder valves together. Hold the valves really tight and open the empty valve then crack the full cylinder valve. Close the empty cylinder valve first then the full cylinder vavle. This will force a little air into the empty cylinder. Not much but some. I would do this after a flying with bottles as I often could not get down to the shop to fill them. Now I have a whip.
 
I'm gonna take the tanks back to where Ibought them and get Rich to fix it. No sense paying $10-$20 for a visual inspectin when all the thing needs is maintennance.

That'd be like changing all of the seals on my reg because I changed the second stage :)


Phil--sounds like I'll have to settle and run a full dive shop then :) In my hometown there is alot of competition, and it would be hard to angle in on it, I'd need to partner with some good instructors, and startout carrying a single line of gear, most likely, but I swear i could give better service than atleast half the shops in town. :) I don't know if I could ever provide service the way you and ST do. It's sort of like....PerroneFord on this board, or something like that. He does a great job vipping tanks, and not everyone does them as well as he does. As for the reg service, my Conshelf XII came back and I tested it inthe pool, and the second stage seemed to be a little freeflow prone. At some point, I changed out to a new first stage using the Conshelf second as my octo, and a Scubapro R380 as my primary second, and I don't know if I tested that in the pool or not, I don't remember when I switched. I only switched because my Conshelf didn't have enough LP ports for an octo and an inflator hose, and I got a good deal on a used Genesis first stage. I wanted to make sure that it worked fine, so I took it to the shop closest to me, who charged me $20 to test it. They said the IP was fine and that the stuff looked to be in good shape. I had specifically asked them tom ake sure that the second stages didn't freeflow too easily, and they specifically told me they performed fine inthe dunk tank. Three days later I was getting in at the Ear at Ginnie Springs at the Megadive and I couldn't get the Conshelf to stop freeflowing to save my life. If you had told me to make it stop or I'd be shot, then I would have been shot, it was that bad. :) Actually, I did sort of get it to stop, but the second it was turned mouthpiece up, diaphragm down, it would freeflow. The hose on it was a little short, and so I got out of the water and changed the second stage out with another one, a Sherwood, which hadn't been serviced, just picked it up really cheap in town a week before. Still haven't serviced it, still works fine as my octo. I spent several hours detuning the Conshelf, and don't fancy the thought of paying that guy to "fix" it again :). And then the big shop here doesn't have a tech around, so any service takes almost a month, which is unreasonable to me. I have yet to find a place that will service my gear in house for a reasonable fee and will return my gear in working condition and provide me with help when I need it (I took the reg in to the shop where I'd taken it to get serviced (they all ship to same guy, but have different prices) and asked if they would fix it, they refused and told me I'd have to pay again to get it fixed. That's inexcusable in my opinion, making me pay again because the guy adjusted it wrong the first time???), so my gear will either not be serviced yearly, or will be serviced by yours truly.

I have no problems taking off the valve and fixing this, but I just know if I took it back to Divers Direct, they would complain that it was empty and that I needed it to be vipped. I'm not willing to do that. I would entertain the thought of ghetto-filling it, or would make my own DIY whip (might do that anyways) but I'm going home in a few weeks and can take care of it then, I've got another tank to dive if I need to in the meantime, and the 1400 psi in it still will get me through a shallow OW dive no problem ifI had to.

And Ann Marie, I appreciate your opinion but honestly I appreciate knowing what the handbook says more :) That's what I was really after in this thread. Next step is to get my own handbook by taking the class myself.

Really all, I appreciate the frank and honest, yet fact filled discussion we have been having.

(a pint of seawater is horrible, and my tanks are aluminum. Has any company done a comparable study, but with aluminum cylinders?)
 
If dip tubes were unnessary why would the valve companies make them.

Play it safe-it's a quick fix!

as a side note, I asked why the valve manufacturers could not change the spec's on threading to create a minor mis-match of theads between the dip tube and valve so that once installed it would not simply loosen up. Never got a satisfactory answer.
 
Fascinating thread

JahJahWarrior you asked about PSI recommendations, got them and now chose to ignore those recommendations - so why bother to even ask. Ann and others have given pretty decent advise.

IMHO the tank should be VIP'd. Depending on what is found when they open the tank, I might even recommend the valve being rebuilt. Considering the only true emergency in diving is the inability to breathe. As a close friend of mine always says, no one complains about too much air, but when they can't take a breath - well it gets to be pretty important real fast.

So you have been diving it and haven't had a problem, that doesn't mean something won't go wrong on your next dive. $20.00 or $30.00 to verify your tank is decent and you won't have a problem is cheap money.

If you won't spend $20.00 to be safe would you spend the $265.00 and one very long day in a PSI class to learn about visual inspections?

And you are correct, in "most" instances you don't have to be PSI trained to do inspections. There is one scuba tank where US Hazmat law requires the inspector to be PSI trained in order to do the visual. All of this said - a Dive shop who gets sued for improper visual inspections would do better in court if their techs were PSI trained, OTOH those who don't have PSI certified techs will probably need some really high priced lawyers.

I don't shop at divers direct, leisure pro, or Walmart - (for anything). Getting a tank filled from leisure pro might be a tad difficult. Divers direct caters to resort divers - they don't have to train their employees about partial gas blending etc etc.

Find a tech friendly shop and you will pay more, but you might be a bit happier.

btw www.psicylinders.com has a library section that anyone can go and read.

Cheers

Steve
 
I have tried to answer your initial question several times. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough.

From PSI:

Conditions and people ofter are not average so a VCI is appropriate whenever a problem is suspected. An alert owner or service technician may receive clues about possible cylinder damage. They should consider an immediate visual inspection when any of the following occur:

7. previous history is unknown

These are PSI Standards agree or not; you asked what they were. As for the initial VCI, the dip-tube and valve should have been inspected so that really the dip-tube should not have fallen out.

What does item # 7 mean? How is it used? How should mit be used?
 
If dip tubes were unnessary why would the valve companies make them.

Play it safe-it's a quick fix!

as a side note, I asked why the valve manufacturers could not change the spec's on threading to create a minor mis-match of theads between the dip tube and valve so that once installed it would not simply loosen up. Never got a satisfactory answer.

Nobody said that it is unnecessary... If air quality is better than enough, dip tube won't be issue.

All tank comes with the tank boot? But, they are stll manufacturing...

I don't use the boot on my tanks....
 
Fascinating thread

JahJahWarrior you asked about PSI recommendations, got them and now chose to ignore those recommendations - so why bother to even ask. Ann and others have given pretty decent advise.

....

If you won't spend $20.00 to be safe would you spend the $265.00 and one very long day in a PSI class to learn about visual inspections?

And you are correct, in "most" instances you don't have to be PSI trained to do inspections. There is one scuba tank where US Hazmat law requires the inspector to be PSI trained in order to do the visual. All of this said - a Dive shop who gets sued for improper visual inspections would do better in court if their techs were PSI trained, OTOH those who don't have PSI certified techs will probably need some really high priced lawyers.

I don't shop at divers direct, leisure pro, or Walmart - (for anything). Getting a tank filled from leisure pro might be a tad difficult. Divers direct caters to resort divers - they don't have to train their employees about partial gas blending etc etc.

Find a tech friendly shop and you will pay more, but you might be a bit happier.

btw www.psicylinders.com has a library section that anyone can go and read.

Cheers

Steve

1. I have not ignored the PSI suggestions, I have infact indicated in this thread that my plan is to take the tank to Rich Courtney, at Cave Excursions, near Ginnie Springs in High Springs, Florida, to have the dip tube reinserted, and I am sure he will look at the tank to make sure that the dip tube didn't fall off for any reason requiring the tank to be condemned.

2. Because for $265, I can look at my own cylinders knowledgeably, without paying $40 every year for someone else to do it. I'll need a flashlight and a dental mirror, and perhaps a tool to check depth of threads and anything that looks like a crack or corrosion. I could also visually inspect the cylinders of friends for a low fee, say, $5, and thus recoup my own costs. I'm the kind of guy that changes my own oil. :)

3. Leisure Pro has a store and showroom in New York, it's possible they also have a fill station there, but not garunteed. Walmart probably won't have one, and Divers' Direct has one, but it's pretty much impossible to use it, apparently. :)

4. The tech friendly shop I have found, Cave Excursions, is actually cheaper than almost any other place I've found, will often match prices, and occassionally has used gear for sale as well. They matched Scubatoys on a BP/W I purchased recently, except I paid full price for the crotch strap, and had to pay tax.

5. Thanks for the info on PSI, I didn't know that, and am glad to know it now.
 
JahJah, DEMA is coming up and is in Orlando. PSI will be offereing courses there. You do not need to a dive professional to attend their seminars. Sign up and go for it - your posts show that you are more than ready for it.
 
Phil--sounds like I'll have to settle and run a full dive shop then :)

lets do it :) i'm starting to have second thoughts about engineering
 
JahJah, DEMA is coming up and is in Orlando. PSI will be offereing courses there. You do not need to a dive professional to attend their seminars. Sign up and go for it - your posts show that you are more than ready for it.

good thought, hadn't thought of that. I was gonna try to get a job with the campus newspaper and attend as a photographer :) Good idea though, I'll look into it.

BTW, Marchand is the guy with the steel HP 120 that DD can't fill.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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