Problem with generic braided hoses

[tech3324]

Maybe this was already discussed, but interesting that the "MIFLEX TECHNICAL DATA BULLETIN" shows marking as "MFX – EN 250 – 35 BAR - YEAR". Doesn't seem consistent with what is being reported.

 

[buddhasummer]

Testing is one way of obtaining data. I spent quite a bit of my working years doing just that. I also spent a few years evaluating military systems in the absence of good test data. Unfortunately, good test data are often prohibitively expensive; yet it is wrong to claim "we don't know because we don't have any test data.

Sure, there are clear limitations to what I have done. And the starting age of the "test" items might have been an issue had there been failures. And conducting reliability testing on 3900 items for one hour each would be quite different from conduction a 1300 hour test on three item but when you think this one through, you should realize that the first approach would be most problematic and my data is somewhere in between and closer to the later approach. Once again, with no failures, I'm not sure what this ill-defined sample would lack in comparison to a controlled, representative sample other than infant mortality failures. And I am not at all sure what role you see for a control group in this case unless you want to bring in specific independent variables.

I am not questioning the reliability of braided hose. My issue was with the idea that some want to change out hoses based on age or usage time with no apparent basis (data). My issue with these braided hose is not their reliability but the failure mode they seem to present. I have no problem with the idea of identifying incipient failures in any scuba hose and replacing that hose before their is a serious failure. But it looks like this may require frequent disassembly and inspection with Miflex LP hoses. It is hard enough to get diver to inspect for cracks and bubbles. This may be asking too much.

---------- Post added August 7th, 2015 at 10:13 AM ----------



Why would you log dates? What makes you think age is an important variable?

Was thinking about two things at the same time. I have realized I have no idea about the ages, purchase dates where I bought etc. I tend to keep a lot of stock so have quite a lot of them. As buying hoses in the lengths I like is difficult here I probably go overboard as it looks like I have enough hoses to open my own shop. I sell to my local buddies, I also tend to swap configurations quite regularly. Knowing which hoses are new etc appeals to my somewhat OCD nature. Not related to failures. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Nemrod]

I think the logging of hose purchase/installation dates and tracking them is probably another thread. I do keep track of my hoses. Most of my rubber hoses have a date on them but one thing I used to do is use that SCUBA marking paint, comes in different colors, each color I use as a year and I place a dot or a stripe. If I run out of colors I then do double dots etc. It helps me to keep the hoses together as sets and year of purchase. Of courses hoses, braided or rubber, that have dates on them, I simply record the date.

My main issue with some of the discussion here is that there is an assumption that rubber hoses have an unlimited life and yet this assumption is made/based on no document or statement from a manufacturer. They do not have an unlimited service life.

I guess I am my usual outlier. I do not see how y'all have rubber hoses 30 years old that still are supple, no cracks or bulging especially at the fittings. Or you are simply not diving or diving them often. All rubber hoses that I have over the years on regulators that I actually dive frequently are IMO not serviceable after a few years. I see cracks, bulges, indications of broken cord, damaged fittings, cuts and nicks. Yeah, I have old hoses that still look good on regulators I bought and never use. Every reg I have bought on ebay except for two NIB Titan Supremes, I removed and discarded the hoses, most had visible damage. I guess the idea that I might have to replaces hoses on a schedule or once in a decade is just not causing me to have an issue.

I do not like the "hidden" failure mode of the suspect braided hoses, but, then, ever the skeptic, since I have not held the hoses in my hands, I am not sure that I could not tell. If the lining is broken down, they should at least feel differently.

I wish we could get to the bottom of this.

I was invited (under coercion) to go bass fishing with a friend of my wife's husband. I have two Rocket ABU 5500Cs from circa 1972, you think it would be okay if I put new line on them? Probably will not catch a fish so no matter.

My dad just gave me his bow that we bought him for fathers day in 1964. Y'all think I need a new string on it?

I have some 40 year old gunpowder for my black powder rifle, y'all think it is still okay to use, it looks like, well, kinda black, has round particles, smells kinda okay?

This vintage crap only goes so far with me :/.

James

 

[eelnoraa]

While I totally agree rubber holes can fail just like braided hose in term of durability, but I think rubber will give a sign way before catastrophic failure. You can have a good guess the integrity of the rubber hose by looking at the outside. Then this gives a indicator for user to replace the hose. Not so much for braided hose is what I see here.

 

[redacted]

I think the logging of hose purchase/installation dates and tracking them is probably another thread. I do keep track of my hoses. Most of my rubber hoses have a date on them but one thing I used to do is use that SCUBA marking paint, comes in different colors, each color I use as a year and I place a dot or a stripe. If I run out of colors I then do double dots etc. It helps me to keep the hoses together as sets and year of purchase. Of courses hoses, braided or rubber, that have dates on them, I simply record the date.

My main issue with some of the discussion here is that there is an assumption that rubber hoses have an unlimited life and yet this assumption is made/based on no document or statement from a manufacturer. They do not have an unlimited service life.

I guess I am my usual outlier. I do not see how y'all have rubber hoses 30 years old that still are supple, no cracks or bulging especially at the fittings. Or you are simply not diving or diving them often. All rubber hoses that I have over the years on regulators that I actually dive frequently are IMO not serviceable after a few years. I see cracks, bulges, indications of broken cord, damaged fittings, cuts and nicks. Yeah, I have old hoses that still look good on regulators I bought and never use. Every reg I have bought on ebay except for two NIB Titan Supremes, I removed and discarded the hoses, most had visible damage. I guess the idea that I might have to replaces hoses on a schedule or once in a decade is just not causing me to have an issue.

I do not like the "hidden" failure mode of the suspect braided hoses, but, then, ever the skeptic, since I have not held the hoses in my hands, I am not sure that I could not tell. If the lining is broken down, they should at least feel differently.

I wish we could get to the bottom of this.

I was invited (under coercion) to go bass fishing with a friend of my wife's husband. I have two Rocket ABU 5500Cs from circa 1972, you think it would be okay if I put new line on them? Probably will not catch a fish so no matter.

My dad just gave me his bow that we bought him for fathers day in 1964. Y'all think I need a new string on it?

I have some 40 year old gunpowder for my black powder rifle, y'all think it is still okay to use, it looks like, well, kinda black, has round particles, smells kinda okay?

This vintage crap only goes so far with me :/.

James

I have no doubt that hoses, like o-rings, have a limited life span. But I don't know what that is and I am content inspecting them for problems and using them as long as they pass inspection.

I know nylon line degrades over time. You can always test it by giving it a tug or just let the fish test it for you. And, while that reel is a classic and may last forever, reel manufactures (unlike regulator manufacturers) have actually developed and incorporated new technology that has a few performance advantages. The gun powder, if it was stored correctly, should be just fine.

---------- Post added August 8th, 2015 at 04:32 PM ----------

I think the logging of hose purchase/installation dates and tracking them is probably another thread. I do keep track of my hoses. Most of my rubber hoses have a date on them but one thing I used to do is use that SCUBA marking paint, comes in different colors, each color I use as a year and I place a dot or a stripe. If I run out of colors I then do double dots etc. It helps me to keep the hoses together as sets and year of purchase. Of courses hoses, braided or rubber, that have dates on them, I simply record the date.

My main issue with some of the discussion here is that there is an assumption that rubber hoses have an unlimited life and yet this assumption is made/based on no document or statement from a manufacturer. They do not have an unlimited service life.

I guess I am my usual outlier. I do not see how y'all have rubber hoses 30 years old that still are supple, no cracks or bulging especially at the fittings. Or you are simply not diving or diving them often. All rubber hoses that I have over the years on regulators that I actually dive frequently are IMO not serviceable after a few years. I see cracks, bulges, indications of broken cord, damaged fittings, cuts and nicks. Yeah, I have old hoses that still look good on regulators I bought and never use. Every reg I have bought on ebay except for two NIB Titan Supremes, I removed and discarded the hoses, most had visible damage. I guess the idea that I might have to replaces hoses on a schedule or once in a decade is just not causing me to have an issue.

I do not like the "hidden" failure mode of the suspect braided hoses, but, then, ever the skeptic, since I have not held the hoses in my hands, I am not sure that I could not tell. If the lining is broken down, they should at least feel differently.

I wish we could get to the bottom of this.

I was invited (under coercion) to go bass fishing with a friend of my wife's husband. I have two Rocket ABU 5500Cs from circa 1972, you think it would be okay if I put new line on them? Probably will not catch a fish so no matter.

My dad just gave me his bow that we bought him for fathers day in 1964. Y'all think I need a new string on it?

I have some 40 year old gunpowder for my black powder rifle, y'all think it is still okay to use, it looks like, well, kinda black, has round particles, smells kinda okay?

This vintage crap only goes so far with me :/.

James

I have no doubt that hoses, like o-rings, have a limited life span. But I don't know what that is and I am content inspecting them for problems and using them as long as they pass inspection.

I know nylon line degrades over time. You can always test it by giving it a tug or just let the fish test it for you. And, while that reel is a classic and may last forever, reel manufactures (unlike regulator manufacturers) have actually developed and incorporated new technology that has a few performance advantages. The gun powder, if it was stored correctly, should be just fine.

 

[Nemrod]

AWAP, so what (new) fishing reel then if not my ancient, vintage (Rocket upgraded) 5500C reels?

I bought them when I worked in a sporting good department while in college. I recall them being the shocking price of $54.95 (1972 or so) along with two Lew's pistol grip original issue Speed Sticks. Now, I have newer equipment for saltwater but I have not messed with delicious bass in years. .

N

 

[redacted]

AWAP, so what (new) fishing reel then if not my ancient, vintage (Rocket upgraded) 5500C reels?

I bought them when I worked in a sporting good department while in college. I recall them being the shocking price of $54.95 (1972 or so) along with two Lew's pistol grip original issue Speed Sticks. Now, I have newer equipment for saltwater but I have not messed with delicious bass in years. .

N

Sorry, not much help since I stopped bass fishing a few years ago. But most reels from this century have adjustable magnetic brakes in place if the adjustable friction brakes which just about eliminate those ^&%$ bird nests. Thumbing a cast is almost unnecessary. While prices are a bit higher, I suspect you can still get an adequate bait casting reel with magnetic brake for $55; unless you still think you have the touch.

Real bass fishermen don't eat bass. It is almost all catch and release. Perch are really much better anyway.

 

[buddhasummer]

So after the current threads running re braided hoses who's switching back to rubber?

I am.

 

[redacted]

So after the current threads running re braided hoses who's switching back to rubber?

I am.

I will switch one of my wife's LP Miflex hoses back to rubber and inspect the other often.

 

[Nemrod]

Real bass fishermen don't eat bass. It is almost all catch and release. Perch are really much better anyway.

I grew up in pirogues, which we built from native cypress, on the bayous of Louisiana, and I am pretty sure we were real. Alligator wrestling and catching bass are kind of not a big deal. I guess you have no humor, no worries.

The "delicious" bass comes from the movie Napoleon Dynamite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Q_8DvipCA

This Trident stuff is what I use to mark hoses etc.:

Trident U-Mark It Gear Marking Paint PA55 with reviews at scuba.com

---------- Post added August 8th, 2015 at 09:52 PM ----------

So after the current threads running re braided hoses who's switching back to rubber?

I am.

I am not.

N