Primary Donate - Hose Length

[stuartv]

If the picture in the quote below is what you're referring to, then I agree it's not less streamlined. I would also argue that it isn't more streamlined than a 7ft hose routed properly. With hoses routed that close to the body streamlining is negligible. However, from the photo below I can imagine other drawbacks, like interference with the right shoulder D-ring. It also looks less comfortable to me - the way the longhose sits behind your neck carries the weight of the hose, making it very comfortable in the mouth. Also when clipped off to the chest D-ring, I'm curious how streamlined the 40" hose will be when it makes a looser loop under the arm.

I used to run my single tank setup as shown in that photo. That was (and still appears to be) the ScubaBoard GroupThink Best Practice.

Now, I have no angle adapter on the 40" hose and that reg (mouthpiece) goes into a silicon or bungee loop from my right chest D-ring. The short hose (~22") with a swivel and a bungee necklace goes into my mouth. The 40" hose runs almost straight down from the bottom of my 1st stage. Overall, I don't think you can really make a single tank rig MORE streamlined. In practical terms, sure, a 7' hose could be just AS streamlined (as long as the 7' hose doesn't get loose and start just floating around you, as often happens).

I know somebody will say that octos fall out of their holders all the time, so my rig puts me at risk for not being able to find my octo when somebody rips my primary out of my mouth (and starts having a REALLY tough time, since it's on a 22" hose). All I can say is that mine does very, very occasionally come loose - and my awareness is generally such that I notice it quickly and fix it immediately.

I've never been involved in an OOA situation, or even seen one happen. I am not really too worried about somebody snatching my reg out of my mouth and then me not be able to find my other reg to breathe from.

Hopefully, I will not someday regret diving single tank the way I, and most instructors (in the U.S. - I think), teach it.

So, I guess I would rephrase my statement as: 7ft longhose is better or equal in terms of streamlining to any other config.

Cool. </discussion>

I really don't see this happening. Have you tried it? When the primary on a 7ft longhose is in my mouth, the hose is snug around my neck and across my chest. It would be very hard for someone on my left to pull reg towards them without either moving to my front or pulling it over my head. Even if they pull it under my chin, it wouldn't reach them. They would literally need to have their face under my chin to breathe from it. Still if someone were to successfully pull it under my chin and hold it there, I could just spin towards them to solve it. I have also not tried to simulate this situation, so I might be wrong, but instinctually I don't see this being a problem. Maybe I'll ask a buddy to try pulling it from my mouth from my left to test it...

No. And I'm not saying that using a 7' hose is dangerous and that you shouldn't do it. I just think a 40" hose is better - for single tank diving. Everything we're talking about is "what-if" very unlikely scenarios. Somebody grabs your reg and pulls it a certain way. They grab it and you can't find your other reg. You donate an octo and it doesn't breathe for some reason. Etc..

Fair enough. That might have been what he meant, in which case what I wrote does not apply to him. I have seen similar sentiments being voiced on ScubaBoard, though, so I stand by what I said for whoever might have this philosophy.

I don't think anybody on ScubaBoard would advocate "screw 'em. They can die. They ran out of air, so they are stupid and don't deserve my help." Some people may talk like they think that, but I do not believe even those people would actually behave that way in real life.

If we are going to strawman arguments, how would you deal with diver coming above your left shoulder, pulling your reg left and up and pinning your secondary under your chin?

I think I shall bow out of continuing down this rabbit hole. We can what-if an example to make ANY config seem bad. You can dive with whatever length hose you want. I'm not saying a 7' hose will kill you. It is just my opinion that a 40" hose on a single tank reg set is better. But, it's not the difference between "you're good" and "you're gonna die!" It's just one person's opinion, biased by my experience and the specific diving I do and have done.

We (mostly) all dive single tank setups (at least sometimes), carrying no redundant gas supply. That, in and of itself, is probably more dangerous than any of the differences in hose length and OOA donate/take/primary/secondary protocols we're discussing.

If anybody really wants to debate the safest configuration and protocol to use, then the discussion should start with "dive with two tanks (manifolded doubles, sidemount, or single tank and pony), have a long hose on the reg in your mouth, and have a reg for the other cylinder on a short hose to a bungee necklace holding it under your chin. An OOA diver gets the reg in your mouth." And then the discussion would end.

 

[Pressurehead]

I don't do tech stuff, but do primary donate with a 48 inch that goes under my right arm and up to a 110° fitting on the second stage. 22 inch alternate on a necklace. Keeps everything close and controlled

I now clip my spg to my left chest D-Ring. It's out of the way, streamlined, and all I have to do is glance down to read it.

A 7 ft hose offers advantages, but being more streamlined than a properly setup rig with a 40" hose is not one of them.

All my long hoses sit in a spare parts box now.
As above.

 

[inquis]

When I'm getting out of the water, my primary stays in my mouth until I'm fully back on the boat

To elaborate on my suggestion to coil on the safety stop, that's more appropriate when you have to take the rig off in the water; e.g., climbing into a RIB/zodiac or handing it off before climbing the ladder. (I had an op in Cozumel do that -- sure was nice!) If I'm wearing it up the ladder, I do as you do and keep the primary in my mouth.

 

[Nemrod]

I used to run my single tank setup as shown in that photo. That was (and still appears to be) the ScubaBoard GroupThink Best Practice.

Now, I have no angle adapter on the 40" hose and that reg (mouthpiece) goes into a silicon or bungee loop from my right chest D-ring. The short hose (~22") with a swivel and a bungee necklace goes into my mouth. The 40" hose runs almost straight down from the bottom of my 1st stage. Overall, I don't think you can really make a single tank rig MORE streamlined. In practical terms, sure, a 7' hose could be just AS streamlined (as long as the 7' hose doesn't get loose and start just floating around you, as often happens).

I know somebody will say that octos fall out of their holders all the time, so my rig puts me at risk for not being able to find my octo when somebody rips my primary out of my mouth (and starts having a REALLY tough time, since it's on a 22" hose). All I can say is that mine does very, very occasionally come loose - and my awareness is generally such that I notice it quickly and fix it immediately.

I set my wife up with a 60 inches long hose primary and a 22 inches secondary. She hated it. She fussed and carried on so that I switched her back to a 40 inches long octopus hose rigged under her shoulder and a 24 inches primary over her shoulder. The "octopus" has a bungee necklace that is using a fisherman slip knot for quick release with a tug so she can donate.

Here she is, since this photo I have shortened the pink bungee necklace so that the "octopus" secondary stays tucked neatly up under her chin much better.



I found the long hose to be a complete PITA to deal with doffing to board a RIB. What I finally did to make it less painful than getting hit over the head with a hammer was to unwrap the 60 inches long hose, coil and clip it off to my right D ring. I then pulled my secondary from it's bungee necklace and switched over. I would switch to the secondary at safety stop and during that time clip off my primary. Then when I surfaced the crew would not attempt to haul me aboard by the long hose and in so doing knock my $500 mask off or yank my $6000 camera out of my hands or choke me to death and drag me under the RIB holding my long hose as if it was an episode of Swamp People and I an alligator .

 

[Lorenzoid]

I think too much is made of "muscle memory". Yes, it is a thing and it is good to develop. What is not good is behaving as if there is only one "memory" you can develop.

You can have muscle memory for diving with a 7' hose and also muscle memory for diving other configurations.

I think being flexible/adaptable in scuba - as in everything in life - is a good thing. Being able to dive a single tank rig with a 40" "long" hose, a doubles rig with a 7' hose, and a sidemount rig - all, competently - is good. Telling yourself "I always and only dive with a 7' primary hose, for muscle memory" is doing yourself a disservice.

Sidemount divers learn how to dive with a 7' hose and donate that from their mouth, and also how to dive with a short hose in their mouth and donate their 7' hose that is clipped off to a chest D-ring. Is sidemount inherently unsafe because they develop 2 muscle memories for OOA situations, instead of just one?

Learn multiple ways to do things. Get good at them all.

That's easy for you scubanati to say.

 

[Fastmarc]

Anything longer than the under arm 40" would be too tricky for my type of diving, since it's small boats that I have to dof in the water and hand my gear over to be lifted out of the water.
Towards the end of my SS, I usually switch over to my necklaced secondary and clip off my primary. The secondary stays in my mouth all through the dof. I got one of those ready made bungee necklace that though it holds the secondary firm it is also easy enough to pull out without it feeling like it puts a strain on the mouth piece, so I do that just before handing it over and leave the necklace around my neck. I found this much easier than pulling the necklace over my head at that time with waves and such.

 

[Gone for diving]

(as long as the 7' hose doesn't get loose and start just floating around you, as often happens).

Funny how now , People have the 7ft hose coming loose, unlike a different thread, that said it basically never happens.

Then when I surfaced the crew would not attempt to haul me aboard by the long hose and in so doing knock my $500 mask off or yank my $6000 camera out of my hands or choke me to death and drag me under the RIB holding my long hose as if it was an episode of Swamp People and I an alligator

I don't think I could dive with operators like that.... someone might get a punch in the nose if they tried dragging me around.

 

[Nemrod]

Funny how now , People have the 7ft hose coming loose, unlike a different thread, that said it basically never happens.

I don't think I could dive with operators like that.... someone might get a punch in the nose if they tried dragging me around.

Things are not always perfect and where the RIB was drifting from behind a sheltered point and beyond that point, like about 50 yards or less away, there were waves that looked like mountains breaking over the reef . Yeah, and my bad shoulder got hurt also and that is not good. Life wears us out and it is just part of living.

 

[Bigbella]

I've always carried an octopus with a stock 90 cm hose -- which had successfully been put to use, as it was originally intended, maybe a handful of times over the years.

No one gets my primary; not gonna happen -- and I have seen no reason to change that perfectly manageable arrangement after four plus decades, blowing bubbles.

Seven foot hoses?

Please . . .

 

[KenE]

I believe all the configurations have been mentioned, I will provide my preference and why. I use the 5' primary donate because I like my secondary reg on a short necklace. I tried the 40" primary and found that it needed to be clipped off all the time it was not in my mouth. With the 5' around the neck it stayed right where I left it, right next to the other one on the necklace. I found that both regs were right where I expected them and never had to sweep to find one again. The convenience of the 5' over the 40" made up my mind, both are streamlined, it is a preference thing. I don't dive cave or inside wrecks so a 7' was never considered.