Primary Donate - Hose Length

[TrimixToo]

Well, hmmm, I guess you did miss somethings . There is plenty of reason not to breath and donate the long hose, for the best reason, it is not how nearly all sport divers are taught by nearly every ABC agency.<snip>

This is the reason for the pre-dive conversation. A random hose from under my arm someplace might not be a safe gas. The one in my mouth had better be a safe gas. In addition, I have often seen it said (but not seen documented) that many or most OOA divers take the one out of your mouth anyway, mostly *because they know exactly where to find it*. No hunting in the "triangle" is involved. And likewise, I can *always* find the one bungeed under my chin, which is on a much shorter hose that would make it awkward to share.

I'd be fascinated to learn why one should not breathe from the long hose.

 

[Nemrod]

This is the reason for the pre-dive conversation. A random hose from under my arm someplace might not be a safe gas. The one in my mouth had better be a safe gas. In addition, I have often seen it said (but not seen documented) that many or most OOA divers take the one out of your mouth anyway, mostly *because they know exactly where to find it*. No hunting in the "triangle" is involved. And likewise, I can *always* find the one bungeed under my chin, which is on a much shorter hose that would make it awkward to share.

I'd be fascinated to learn why one should not breathe from the long hose

The OP in Post #1 specifically stated Recreational Diving. I gather from that he will not be on trimix or in a cave or using travel gas. He asked why hoses configurations are different lengths and now after all of these posts I think the OP surely understands the two basic options he has to explore .

Why, considering recreational divers, would the octopus be unsafe gas? It is the same gas as you are breathing? Why hand your regulator to another diver and now you are at jeopordy. Why is the gas for a long hose donate safer than for a octopus donate, it is the same gas? Why would you want the panicked diver out of your reach and control? Why do we assume the OOA diver will be panicked? And swim about snatching regulators from other diver's mouths? Why cannot the octopus be QR necklace bungeed at the neck?

There is nothing that prevents a standard configuration diver from using their octopus at safety stop to exercize it and there is no reason to believe that it might be any less functional at a time of need than a long hose donate secondary. And there is no reason that an octopus second stage cannot be the same model as the primary or the octopus safe second have a bolt snap to clip off with while on deck.

As you say, it has been said but not documented that OOA divers will take the one from your mouth. That gets repeated over and over, I agree with that.

I am long hose primary for most of my equipment and diving but the vast, vast majority of divers are not and I do not see that changing. The hose wars have been fought for years and little has changed, both camps are completely fine with the way they do things and it works for them and I am okay with that. And frankly, for certain types of diving, the long hose can be a bit of a PITR.

 

[Bob DBF]

The hose wars have been fought for years and little has changed, both camps are completely fine with the way they do things and it works for them and I am okay with that. And frankly, for certain types of diving, the long hose can be a bit of a PITR.

Let's face it, all the configurations work, it's a matter if what you need. For the diving I do, I wear a snorkel all the time, with few exceptions. I decided a forty something inch hose, and bungeed backup, works best for me. The long hose will work, but in a rush snag the snorkei and take my mask with it if someting went wrong, and by having to donate, something has already gone wrong and I don't need a second problem.

I would advise anyone to try different configurations and make up their own mind. Hoses are cheap, as another said, and you can sell or trade them later, if you don't find another use.

 

[happy-diver]

If only it were that simple

Where have you been Bob I've missed you

 

[Bob DBF]

If only it were that simple

View attachment 804041

Where have you been Bob I've missed you

Down below, encouraging discontent.

 

[buddhasummer]

If only it were that simple

View attachment 804041

Where have you been Bob I've missed you

Indeed, Bob you were conspicuous by your absence. Nice to see you again

 

[ams511]

I am long hose primary for most of my equipment and diving but the vast, vast majority of divers are not and I do not see that changing. The hose wars have been fought for years and little has changed, both camps are completely fine with the way they do things and it works for them and I am okay with that. And frankly, for certain types of diving, the long hose can be a bit of a PITR.

I read the entire thread and while I found it interesting I think what is missing from the discussion is one of the most important elements of DIR diving. That is dive with like-trained individuals using standardized equipment. A well-trained dive team should not have an OOA emergency unless there is an equipment malfunction. A diver should know his gas as well as his buddy's. If there is an OOA or another problem then each diver knows what to do because they are trained the same and has similar equipment.

On a dive boat you can see divers with long hose or short hose primaries, with a short hose. long hose, and Air 2 secondary. Some with Air 2s are not trained properly and will try to donate that. Some are dragging their octos behind them, some are stuffing them in a pocket, some are stuffing them in a d-ring or a holder. Not to mention the odd diver with the pony bottle. This is a potentially dangerous mix in an out of air emergency.

As far as the looping the hose under the arm, this was done at least 25 years ago on the Sherwood Maximus. IIRC the hose is 42" and very flexible more so than other rubber hoses. The first does not have a swivel turret or a bottom port, it is the same first as other Sherwood products. I think Piranha sells a similar soft hose.

 

[stuartv]

I read the entire thread and while I found it interesting I think what is missing from the discussion is one of the most important elements of DIR diving. That is dive with like-trained individuals using standardized equipment. A well-trained dive team should not have an OOA emergency unless there is an equipment malfunction. A diver should know his gas as well as his buddy's. If there is an OOA or another problem then each diver knows what to do because they are trained the same and has similar equipment.

A well-trained and competent diver should not have an OOA emergency. Period. Being with a like-minded buddy or team, having "standardized equipment", etc. makes no difference to that.

What agency(s) teach their divers to constantly monitor their buddy's air as well as their own? I have not heard of that. (referring to "a diver should know his gas as well as his buddy's")

 

[Boarderguy]

What agency(s) teach their divers to constantly monitor their buddy's air as well as their own? I have not heard of that. (referring to "a diver should know his gas as well as his buddy's")

I inquire about my buddies air occasionally throughout the dive and them mine. It isn't required by any means but gives a good sense of when I should be looking to turn the dive. Knowing their current consumption is helpful for me.

 

[ams511]

A well-trained and competent diver should not have an OOA emergency. Period. Being with a like-minded buddy or team, having "standardized equipment", etc. makes no difference to that.

What agency(s) teach their divers to constantly monitor their buddy's air as well as their own? I have not heard of that. (referring to "a diver should know his gas as well as his buddy's")

Stuart, when I was trained back in the early 90s (PADI), my instructor told us to check on your buddy's air throughout the dive. I have had buddies ask to show them my SPG also. So it is not as uncommon as you think. Maybe it is old school? If it is not taught, maybe you should bring it up to the certifying agencies or mention it to your students.

As to not having an out of air emergency period, years ago there was an incident where a turret came off the first stage. At that you loose everything on a single tank. What are your choices: 1) you can ditch weight and do an emergency ascent exhaling as you rise or 2) breath off your buddy's second and do a controlled ascent. I think choice 2 is safer, do you disagree?

As for standardized equipment, The is a transcript floating around on the web on a DIR lecture given by GI3. He explained why they choose to standardize both equipment and procedures after a string of diving accidents. I may still have it if you are interested.